8mm Forum: Actual technicolor print?

This is topic Actual technicolor print? in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 12, 2019, 11:38 AM:

OK, I don't know much about this side of things, but this auction made me quite curious ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8mm-Home-Movie-San-Fernando-Valley-Kindergarten-Nursery-School-Graduation-1963/254296161553?hash=item3b353b7d11:g:UTQAAOSwgS9dKn8v

Is this an actual technicolor home movie film, or is just processed by the technicolor company, but just not actual technicolor?

... and then, a second question comes to mind ...

If this IS technicolor, would this either equal or be better than Kodachrome?

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on August 12, 2019, 12:22 PM:

It looks like someone's home movie? As you know all home movies still look good ! And the color still holds up! I wish all super 8 prints would do that!

Posted by Ed Gordon (Member # 6952) on August 12, 2019, 12:37 PM:

I worked for Technicolor back in the late 60's. The cardboard box in the photo indicates that processing was done by Technicolor using standard processing procedures for Kodak film.

The quality of home movies on Reversal film would of course be better than a print. I don't know why Reversal film does not seem to suffer the same problems (fading, color loss) that so many prints do.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 12, 2019, 02:36 PM:

So, do we assume it's actually Kodachrome?

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on August 12, 2019, 02:44 PM:

It could be!

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 12, 2019, 02:59 PM:

Here's an interesting item which states that the Technicolor Super 8 projector actually used Kodachrome !!!
https://obsoletemedia.org/technicolor-magi-cartridge/

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on August 12, 2019, 03:03 PM:

That's good to know!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on August 12, 2019, 04:14 PM:

I'll have to check the educational cartridges I got from LPG with A Technicolor projector.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on August 12, 2019, 04:17 PM:

Let us know!

Posted by Ed Gordon (Member # 6952) on August 12, 2019, 04:18 PM:

Yes, it would be Kodachrome (25' double 8mm).

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on August 12, 2019, 04:20 PM:

It could be!

Posted by Ed Gordon (Member # 6952) on August 12, 2019, 04:57 PM:

The reason I say that it would be Kodak film, is that the Technicolor shop I worked in only did Kodak Double 8, Super 8, 16mm, and 35mm. One of my responsibilities was to make the developing solutions for the large machine in which the four film types I mentioned were processed (simultaneously). What I can not say however, is whether or not the Kodak formula for processing Reversal film would work with film from other manufacturers.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on August 13, 2019, 02:57 AM:

The loop I checked "The Anatomy of the Frog" was bright pink so though Kodak (edge Marked Kodak 215) obviously not Kodachrome. This was a Dank Film Library print so of UK origin.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 13, 2019, 12:25 PM:

Considering that the film in question is 1963, if you take Ed's information plus what's pictured, I'm certain without a doubt it's double-standard 8 Kodachrome. Everything else would be eliminated.

The reason the dyes don't fade is because of the remarkable chemistry of Kodachrome: the color dyes were added in processing, combining with couplers in the chemistry of the emulsion. So those additive dyes are more color-stable than the all-in-one dye incorporated emulsions such as Eastmancolor or even Ektachrome. That stability is something that Kodachrome and Technicolor share in common Z(albeit for differing reasons, of course).

Another relevant bit of information is that genuine dye-transfer Technicolor film was only ever manufactured on 35mm equipment. So all 16mm IB Tech was printed on 35mm stock and slit and punched after-the-fact. That is why there are no unfaded 70mm prints from the pre-LPP era, and why those Technicolor cartridges were actually loaded with Kodak stocks. (Nobody's ever been able to come up with an example of 8mm IB Tech, which is possible in theory but never been shown in fact.)

Interesting that Technicolor ventured into consumer products. Never saw it personally, though, as a youngster since it wasn't available in our geographical area.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 14, 2019, 11:28 AM:

... which is why when you find an actual Kodachrome feature film on super 8, it still looks breathtaking! There were some Kodachrome super 8 feature films done in Italy, "Bambi" being one of them). I've seen screenshots and it really looks incredible.

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