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Topic: Mark Sylvesters Bootlace Forum
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Mark Todd
Film God
Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted July 16, 2004 03:19 PM
They are about to with a very affordable sony on the horizon.
On the 35mm the good DVd projectors now really will give you an experiance like 35mm in the home now, as I mentioned my friends £500 new one is awesome.
And we both have the benifit of doing the two side by said and sadly its no contest, rich lovely almost 3 images, no fade, no warp, vinegar, lines,blue or green bias or excessive grain etc but I can live with that.
Give it a try tom and still enjoy your film, if you see a VP properly set up and run, quite simple to do you will be amazed.
Best Mark.
best Mark.
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 19, 2004 05:57 AM
I think the current film vs. video issue is all a bit worrying, because unlike in the past when we were just taking about home set-ups, it's now an issue that threatens main stream cinema.
I've spent a small fortune on DLP, Dolby Digital and literally hundreds of DVDs, simply because I couldn't get the material on 8 or 16mm and wanted above all to experience the films in a "cinema" enviroment, rather than on a TV. But the fact remains that a good 8mm print is so much more involving than DLP projection, with better definition, contrast and colour. True, not all 8mm prints are good. And there's the first problem; comparing an older, dodgy 8mm to a new cleaned-up DVD version is misleading and an unfair comparison of formats. But then there is the delight of finding an old 8mm title at a convention or on a list which holds no promise quality wise and turns out to be a gem, or fixing a problem with a print by re-recording the sound or finding a replacement reel, etc. All part of the fun of collecting real film which, frankly, is much a more enjoyable experience than popping into HMV for a cheap disc.
But then I've popped into HMV for several hundred discs over the last few years! It's convenient to see the latest release at home, or a classic movie with a decent image; but I've always taken comfort from the fact that "real" film is still out there, that a good 8mm copy is the definitive version, or that, when there's time, we can go to the real cinema and see the sparkling quality that only 35mm can manage. And that's the real problem which is starting to worry me; just how much longer is 35mm going to survive?
I've seen several DLP presentations at various cinemas. The first, "Toy Story 2" several years ago looked OK, but then at the same time you couldn't help but be aware that it was a bit of a cheat; there really isn't any contrast challenge in an image like that and the colours are over-emphasised, so the overall impression was alright. The I saw "Mission to Mars". Again, to start with, it looked alright; definition seemed OK with no obvious "video" problems. Maybe the hype was right. Sadly, no. After only a few minutes it became painfully obvious that the contrast was poor; dark scenes held no depth or detail, the kind of image that you go to the real cinema for was not in evidence. Worse, colours looked pale and every now and then the whole image flickered as if from a hand-cranked toy.
Latest examples, such as "Finding Nemo" at the Odeon Leicester Square were the same. "Pirates of the Caribbean" was the almost the last straw for me. In this case, no warning was given that the film was presented using DLP, unlike previous venues which had proudly announced it. I thought I had payed my £11 to see real film. For me, it was awful, no contrast, poor colour and no life to it. But worryingly, the people I was with didn't seem to mind. And that really bothered me. That problem was it did look OK. But just OK and nothing more. Had everyone been treated to a comparison with film, film would have won hands down. Such is the march of technology.
As we all know, many technological advances are commercially driven and there has never been a better example. Staff at the cinema told me of the nightmare day spent downloading "Pirates" from satellite. It made me shudder; the reality of distributors downloading movies into cinemas is here. The fact the it took all day and was frought with problems made me chuckle, but the sad fact is that it works and any problems will soon be iron out.
When I go to the cinema now, I pay my £11 for the best seats in the house and I don't know whether or not I'm paying for a real film show or for video projection. The future is here and it is not an improvement.
Of course, technology will improve and I'd be the first to welcome a commercial electronic medium which really is better than film, certainly the single-handed projectionist who runs 12 screens at my local multiplex would! But that improvement in quality isn't yet. So thank goodness I've still got my reels of film to play with.
Sorry for going on; end of essay. But I do feel strongly about this change and I think that us 8mm film addicts should resist it as long as possible. Sure, enjoy video projection. It's here and it would be foolish not to, but please don't let us convince ourselves that it's better. Infact, on the contrary, complain and insist that it isn't or we may find ourselves with a film-free future all too soon.
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 19, 2004 09:07 AM
I could not agree more, Rob. Yes, many collectors have now got onto the video projection banwagon and, in fact, many immediately sell off their old cine equipment and films ( or sell their cine equipment and films to fund the video projector purchase), which seems to me a big mistake. I would think that most collectors would later regret doing that, after the novelty of the new video projector wears off a little bit. I am just about to get my first video projector, to supplement some of my S8 shows, and I don't care how wonderful the picture is, I will never sell my 8mm projectors, or any of my film collection. Last night I treated the family to a repeat showing of "Grease", and was struck yet again how fantastic top notch S8 film prints, in genuine CinemaScope and belting Dolby Stereo sound, can be. On my 8ft wide scope screen, it was truly a theatrical experience, it literally left nothing to be desired in terms of visual and sound impact. You are pulled into the picture and sound, and forget it's just little old super 8. Similarly, even the older 4:3 films, the silent Chaplins and L&H'S, somehow have more atmosphere when projected as film, with the chatter of the projector. Children particulary love this, as they have grown up on the video cassette which they now take for granted, and are enthralled when they first encounter the magic of the opto-mechanical projector. If you don't believe me, turn a child loose with a little Pathe Ace, and watch their eyes light up as they crank the handle. Add to that the shear beauty and pride of ownership which is bestowed by the posession and display of superb cine projectors like the GS1200, Bolex 18-5, Eumig 938, B+H Filmo's etc. These are all genuine pieces of design art, engineering excellence and beauty, the likes of which will never be seen again. As for the films themselves, they should be purchase, treasured, and shown for as long as they can be maintained.
I am going to follow Mark Sylvester's advice and enjoy the best of both worlds, film and video, for what qualities they both uniquely have to offer.
Abandon Super 8 cine? No way! It's way too much fun!
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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