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Author Topic: Turning video into film... Crazy idea
Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted July 10, 2005 10:15 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's a random thought I've been having... how neat it would be to take your favorite DVD or video file, play it back on your computer and transfer the video frame-by-frame to super-8 using a camera pointing at the monitor... Crazy, I know [Wink] But I wonder how well it would work - especially using an LCD screen instead of a conventional CRT monitor. For one thing, the LCD would have much more brightness/contrast, helping to expose the film correctly, AND you wouldn't have to worry about matching the shutter speed with the monitor's refresh rate because LCD images are static, rather than drawn line-by-line at high speed.
Plus... using good-quality video on a 1024x768 (or higher resolution) screen should yield pretty sharp film images.

What do you all think? Has this been tried before??

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 10, 2005 11:07 AM      Profile for Steven Sigel   Email Steven Sigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are completely mad... :-)

1) it would come out terrible
2) it would take forever
3) it would cost a fortune.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted July 10, 2005 12:32 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, I'm mad. No argument there [Big Grin] However...

1) Not necessarily - why would it?

2) Well, yeah... but I'm not talking about features, more like cartoons and other shorts [Smile]

3) Why? You just use equipment you already have...

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted July 10, 2005 12:55 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You could always get a DVD projector. WOW [Mad] cough [Eek!] splutter [Eek!] [Big Grin]

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted July 10, 2005 01:05 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I.... um.... Suppose you.... What if.... Oh, bugger!

I guess you got me there Tom! [Roll Eyes]

Kevin or Doug... let's lock this one up and speak of it no more [Razz]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted July 10, 2005 02:11 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry to mention the D word [Big Grin] [Wink]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 10, 2005 02:35 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Many years ago a friend of mine did some kind of modification to a cheap GAF camera that made it shoot at 30FPS and we transferred some short stuff to film. The only kicker was that film had to run through the projector at 30FPS for proper speed, but it worked with only a very slow "roll line", so it was pretty close.

I would think if someone had the patience, that the computer monitor idea would work quite well. Just get the biggest one you can and be sure to roll off a few seconds on a test roll before committing to anything of length.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted July 10, 2005 04:00 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All joking aside, for what reason would there be to actualy wish to transfer from Video/DVD to cine??

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted July 10, 2005 04:20 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, THAT one I can answer... there's the odd cartoon (or other short) that just doesn't seem to exist on super-8 - and how neat would it be if one happened to have it as a video file but wanted to see it on the big screen, via super-8... and not have to bother to convert it, burn it to DVD, and go the video projector route... it just would be neat... that's all... [Roll Eyes]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Ortona, Italy
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 - posted July 10, 2005 04:31 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi.
I did this a few times. It's a great way to shoot titles with special effects. Also you can have a DOlby or a THX jingle to show prior to your features, which adds a touch of great showmanship. I also shot the opening rolling titles in Empire Strikes Back to splice before the beginning of the digest which, as everybody knows, hasn't got them. And it works really fine, provided your LCD is really bright. It works better by using a faster film stock like the now discontinued VNF 125 (but sharpness becomes a concern) and/or by projecting the image from the computer with an LCD videoprojector (never tried DLP but I suspect there might be problems with them, same for plasma monitors...). Going the extra mile: back projection from an LCD VPR through a fresnel screen and the movie camera on the other side: better saturation and contrast. Belive me, noth so much worth to have a rare film or something never relesed on 8 mm, but certainly worth for the purposes I described. Results are always decent at least, with proper set up and camera (I use a Canon 1014 XLS).
Try and enjoy.

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Maurizio

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted July 10, 2005 05:17 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah! See? See!? I'm not alone after all! [Big Grin] (Thanks Maurizio!) [Smile]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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From: New York, NY, USA
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 - posted July 10, 2005 05:34 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jan,

Don't be discouraged! Yes, it's a bit.....er.....different, but that's where the fun is. There are many times I wished I had a scene that wasn't included in a digest or a proper finish to an abruptly edited cutdown. Go ahead and try!

What would you do for audio? Have the footage striped and then record the soundtrack?

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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John Saunders
Film Handler

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From: Canada
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted July 10, 2005 06:51 PM      Profile for John Saunders   Email John Saunders   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I considered this before too.
It used to be done all the time years ago with kinescopes.
The fps is the problem because something that has been
telecined to video is close to 30fps while film would be
24 fps (sound film anyway).
But, there are supposed to be programs around (and not
expensive ones either) that can take a video file and
convert it back to 24 fps.
The process is called inverse telecine.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Brooksville, FL
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 - posted July 10, 2005 08:53 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini   Email Chip Gelmini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now there has to be a better way for this to work, through the labs, and optical printing machines. As someone wrote above, imagine how much stuff there could be on super 8 and it might not be faded!

I also believe that we could have a machine that would make digital negatives, from the 35mm master materials. From the digital negative the super 8 positive prints could be made. This would eliminate the 16mm internegative.

But of course, this is way beyond anything we could do at home. I may have built Towers for my HD's; but I'm not about to even attempt this one.

CG

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted July 10, 2005 10:03 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's somebody that does it commercially if you can bear the price:

http://www.blackandwhitefilmfactory.com/video%20to%20Super%208%20transfer.htm

Of course it's not fair to espect them to do this on copyrighted material!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted July 10, 2005 10:21 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You know, you bring up a point there I hadn't even considered: printing copyrighted material to film. Another big reason for doing it yourself, as you'd end up with a print you could screen in the privacy of your own home, perhaps to a small audience if not charged admission. Just like any other super-8 film [Smile]

The way the professionals do it, from what I heard, is like so... expose 35mm film through a tiny, high-resolution display that fits the dimensions of the film frame (a sort of contact printer) - and for each frame, expose the red, yellow and blue separately, then go on to the next frame. That's how they create computer-animated films such as Toy Story...

...And you know what? I just had ANOTHER cool idea - by inverting the colors of your source video material (thus ending up with a negative color display) you could use NEGATIVE film instead of REVERSAL film, and still end up with a projectable positive print!! [Big Grin]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

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From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted July 11, 2005 08:31 AM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have shot some titles from the TFT monitor and it worked for me too. Nice results. It enhances your presentations a lot.

quote:
...And you know what? I just had ANOTHER cool idea - by inverting the colors of your source video material (thus ending up with a negative color display) you could use NEGATIVE film instead of REVERSAL film, and still end up with a projectable positive print!!
Jan... What are you going to do with the orange tint of the negative? [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Marc

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Maurizio Di Cintio
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 - posted July 11, 2005 08:34 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, John Saunders and the others (I realy like your picture, Chip). John, here in Europe our films are transferred to video at 25 fps because both PAL and Secam (French) work at 50 fields per second and not 60 as is the case for NTSC.
Using a Leicina Special or a High-end Nizo or a Beaulieu 6008 (up) the problem is virtually non-existant: they all run at 25 fps. In fact I shot the opening titles of "Empire" with the 1014 XL-s, shutter angle at 220° and film speed of 9 (nine!) fps, after slowing down the playback of the DVD to about 1/3. I did this to gain some more brightness. No blended frames, no scanning bars, nothing unpleasant. And them - yes - I have striped the film (main & balance) and recorded onto it directly from the DVD. Amazing!

I'm not saying it's possible and plesant to sistematically copy whole scenes from DVD's 'cause colors might have some hue shifts and be not totally acceptable. But it's totally OK to obtain those particular special effect or opening opening titles to a digest wich is without them.

Bye bye

--------------------
Maurizio

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

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From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
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 - posted July 11, 2005 08:41 AM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurizio, I've always used the same system as you! [Wink]
Canon 1014XL-S, 220º and 9 fps. Cool results, isn't it?

--------------------
Marc

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted July 11, 2005 08:34 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, looks like I hit a nerve here with quite a number of people. Now if I can actually ever afford an LCD monitor, I'll try this out with my Eumig mini 5 camera (which I bought last year and have yet to even use!!) [Smile]

And, uh... I didn't know negative film had an orange tint... [Eek!]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Michael De Angelis
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 - posted July 11, 2005 10:53 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jan,

This is fascinating, but a little in the dark on this concept.
Does that mean that K40 film is Reversal film,
and we should purchase negative film to create this process
from a DVD and LCD screen.

Help me understand how this would become beneficial?
Is negative film cheaper in price, and can we run it through any Super 8 camera?

The second question is if we were to use negative film, then can an image be struck for many people to print duplicate copies?

I'm willing to try this at home. [Smile]

Incidentally, I think that Computer LCD screens have dropped in price significantly.

Michael

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Ortona, Italy
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 - posted July 12, 2005 03:56 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, you don't have to buy neg stock for this system. You've to use reversal, like K40 or whatever will come after it's passed away.

--------------------
Maurizio

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

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From: Essex UK
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 - posted July 12, 2005 04:46 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Jan, Just like your std 35mm still camera film....neg film has an orange mask. This is there to help correct deficiences in the colour dye sensitivites and gamut. Right lets leave that right there. Just use an E6 process Ektachrome reversal film and be done with it.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted July 12, 2005 06:38 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Got it, Kevin - why make things more complicated [Smile]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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David Michael Leugers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Fairfield, OH, USA
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 - posted July 13, 2005 09:42 PM      Profile for David Michael Leugers   Email David Michael Leugers   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My mad scientist plan is to use my Auricon 16mm with optical sound recording and a TVT shutter (for doing kinescopes) to film off a LCD monitor to produce a projectable 16mm sound print. Since VNF is dead and there is no other high speed color reversal film available, maybe B+W will be my only choice. But B+W makes much better soundtracks anyway and the new Tri-X should be great. I could transfer 8mm or S-8mm film to DV, edit in my computer, add effects and soundtracks, then transfer to 16mm film. Crazy, I know, but I think it would be fun to try.

David M. Leugers

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Live Free or Die

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