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Topic: More GS Trouble

Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 902
From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 06, 2006 06:56 PM

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Just an update - Leon Norris claims to have discovered why the sound is so bad on my GS. He says the rubber wheel that applies pressure on the sound head has worn away so the film is too loose causingthe "underwater" sound I've been getting. He admits he was stumped until he took the whole thing apart and realized that wheel was much smaller than it should be. I was starting to think that I was going crazy and the projector was a lost cause. Now it's on it's way back to me and I have my fingers crossed that it will be working great when I receive it! [Smile]

[Smile]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 07, 2006 12:48 AM

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A worn Pinch roller! thats a new one on me. I have never seen one of those worn to the extent that it's not doing it's job properly.

I'm sorry but I have to ask the question.....if it sounded that bad when you got it back how come Leon didnt hear the problem before he sent it back last time? [Frown]

[Frown]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 07, 2006 08:21 AM

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Kev - I thought the same thing! Maybe he didn't actually listen to the sound... or maybe my luck is just so bad the problem started when I got it back. Leon is a good guy, I think, so I think he just overlooked it. I still haven't got it back yet ... part of me thinks it's still not going to sound right.

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted November 07, 2006 08:30 AM

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Good luck Brian, you`ve certainly had your work cut out trying to stay possitive over this. Be good to hear how it is when it gets back, Fingers crossed.
Best Mark.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 07, 2006 11:19 AM

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Hang in there Brian! Leon is the best, if he can't fix it nobody can. I feel certain that your projector will be fine when you get it back.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Patricia Carpino
Junior
Posts: 21
From: East Hartford, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2006

posted November 08, 2006 01:36 PM

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YES BRIAN...STAY POSITIVE...! WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE AND WE KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO HAVE "MAJOR PROBLEM" IN SOMETHING WE LOVE. LEON, I HAVE NEVER MET. JUST REMEMBER, YOU DONT GET TO BE THE "DUKE" JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN RIDE A HORSE! I AM GOING TO SEND MY GS1200 OUT TO LEON BECAUSE HIS "NAME" ALONE MEANS ELMO EXPERT. KEEP HIS NAME UP THERE...AND YOUR "HOPE" ALSO. WE ALL EXPECTING THE "BEST" FOR YOUR PROJECTOR. THINGS HAVE A WAY OF WORKING OUT...

THANKS

PAT

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 08, 2006 08:03 PM

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Thanks Pat - Give Leon a call when you are ready to have him work on your projector. I told him you may be calling. As for my GS, I will have it by Friday so this will either be a great weekend or a miserable one. I'm think it's going to be OK since Leon just told me the sound is amazing. My fingers are still crossed!

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 902
From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 11, 2006 09:29 PM

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OK, I'm losing my mind now. I received the projector back from Leon for the third time and was ecstatic because the first couple films played great... Then during the middle of the third of fourth film the sound head released and the bulb went into standby mode. Now there is no sound and the bulb only comes on when the pause button is pushed. It seems the switch is not effecting the sound head movement at all - it is just staying in the upright position no matter what I do. I really am starting to give up on this. I will have to call Leon in the morning and if he can't help me over the phone, I guess I will be sending it back to him for the fourth time this month. Sorry to be such a downer but my friends are all sick of hearing about this and I had to vent somewhere.

[ November 11, 2006, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Brian Hendel ]

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 12, 2006 10:23 AM

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Wow, what a bummer Brian! [Frown]

[Frown]

Sounds like something may have come loose in shipping from Leon. This is the problem with the GS- the control system is so damn complex- switches, relays, solenoids,logic circuits, all required for that electrical 'piano key' control system. How much better 9and more reliable) this projector would have been with a simple rotary knob control, like on the Eumig's. And how often do you use reverse, single frame, or 3fps projection? - I would say never! So the GS has all these features that nobody ever uses. So why do people put up with all the frustration of owning a GS1200? Simply because it is about the best super 8 projection available.
Hope Leon can help you get your machine back on the road.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 13, 2006 04:22 AM

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It's not that pesky microswitch at the end of the film path is it? Sounds like the projector has managed to put itself into thread mode which may indicate the microswitch.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 13, 2006 07:53 AM

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John may have something here. Past history seems to indicate that the front and back threading microswitches account for 90% of the problems on GS1200'S. Maybe Leon should just go ahead and replace both of them on Brian's machine.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 13, 2006 07:55 AM

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Yes I too would suggest that is the case. Sounds like the autothread circuitry has kicked in.

If this is a mechanical problem then it's either the Microswitch in the rear associated with the Autothread lever or it might just be a problem with the rear microswitch which releases the mechanism. The only other cause maybe a component within the logic circuits.

I have to say that I dont think I have ever heard of a machine having so many problems. Sounds like a real rogue beast you have there. Did Leon have to replace the pinch roller to cure the last problem?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 902
From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 13, 2006 10:27 AM

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I have no idea what's going on! But I am guessing it's another microswitch problem. Leon has replaced the front one so manybe the back one has gone now. He tried to explain to me that when you update one thing, it leads to a domino effect and the other older parts start giving out because the balance is off. That kind of makes sense to me, I guess. I just can't believe I am shipping it off today for the fourth time this month! With all the shipping costs, it's creeping up to about $500 in repairs so far ... which is just insane. I have to admit it has put a real damper on this hobby for me. I just keep telling myself that soon it will be working right and I'll forget all about the headaches I'm experiencing at this point.

As for the pinch roller... yes, Leon replaced it and the sound was much better... but I have to admit that I could still hear a tiny bit of warbling in music that had long sustained notes. I was willing to live with it, that was until the bulb went dead and the sound stopped altogether!

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Dimitrios Kremalis
Expert Film Handler

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From: Athens - Greece
Registered: Oct 2004

posted November 13, 2006 11:57 AM

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quote:
when you update one thing, it leads to a domino effect and the other older parts start giving out because the balance is off

Brian I don't understand this. Let's say you change the rerecording capacitor, how can this lead to a domino effect?

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 13, 2006 12:13 PM

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Brian, I just cant belive that you are having all this trouble. There are some items on the GS which can give problems and the microswitch at the front of the machine is one of them but quite often when replaced they go on for years. I have certainly not heard of this "Domino" effect before and I have not had to replace many of the rear microswitches, maybe just a couple in total.

I have never had to replace a pinch roller to date due to wear and can only think that this machine must have been used very heavily before you had it. Generally I would say that these machines are quite Wow free once set up correctly even on long notes I wouldnt expect to hear any warbling in normal use.

The relays can and do give problems with age and heavy use and of course they do suffer from guide wear. Once these issues are sorted with the various mods arround these machines seem to go on for years.

I just hope you can get this all sorted once and for all so that your faith (in what is an extremely good projector) is once more restored.

Paul, For us users of the GS who do our own recording via pulse sync etc those extra facilities are a must on a machine such as the GS1200. I for one would certainly miss things such as the still mode with the ability to jog through at slow speed to find the correct frame etc. I do agree that for a lot of users who just show films a lot of those features will never be used. The GS was designed for a specific market when it was released for people who needed the extra light output and the extras for recording. Elmo did realise later that a stripped down version for playback only had its place in the lineup and went on to relase the P version of the std GS and GS Xenon.

I have recently junked a Eumig 802 as the amp was dead and the rubber drive disc was just very badly worn so I would say that all makes have their own inbuilt problems, even Eumigs.
Some people have Eumigs and Elmos etc etc which have never given a days trouble and I think this is just as they say the luck of the draw.

We have to remember that all these machines are now 30 yrs or so old and that we couldnt keep a car going that long without replacement parts being needed at some point.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Alan Rik
Film God

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From: New York City, NY, USA
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posted November 13, 2006 01:31 PM

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I have had many GS machines for sure...and I have had pretty minimal problems with them. One of them had a problem with the solenoid, another had a problem with the motor board, another a problem with the ESS Sync unit. Not bad considering the amount of electronics in that beast! Sorry to hear you are having so many problems Brian but most likely you shouldn't have any more...hopefully...now that I said that.....!

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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posted November 13, 2006 09:28 PM

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Kev makes some excellent points. I think for most film collectors the P- version of the GS1200 would be an excellent choice ( if you can find one - they seem to be pretty rare), as it is electronically simpler than the standard GS. I only use my GS for playback, as I prefer to do my re-recordings on the Eumig 938 Stereo, which I find is easier to use for manual sync recording work and it produces stunning quality sound tracks. But Kev's point about sync-pulse recording/playback is well taken - the GS is the only machine that can do this, a direct result of its complex electronically controlled motor system.
I think the bottom line is that the GS1200 is widely regarded as the best performing S8 projector available and ,as long as you are prepared to do some occasional maintainance work, it will probably end up being your favourite and most used projector.
Brian seems to be having an exceptionally rough time with his particular machine. This kind of repetitive failure is not typical of the GS, and one can only hope that Leon will give Brian some slack on the repair costs in view of the number of times he has had to ship the machine back and fore.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 14, 2006 02:14 AM

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Is there anyone else that Brian could ship the machine to? Perhaps Leon is not giving this particular GS the attention it needs.

Bill Parsons had mine for six months and wouldn't consider returning it until he was entirely confident I wouldn't be sending it back sometime in the near future. That was a couple of years ago and one completely worn out, knackered GS1200 is now the main projector at the BFCC's. Just like my Triumph TR7, the GS1200 is now completely rebuilt.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 14, 2006 08:09 AM

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John,
Leon is regarded as the GS1200 expert on this side of the pond.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 902
From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 16, 2006 07:17 PM

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The soap opera continues. Leon left me a message tonight that the reason the projector stopped working this time around is because of a circuit board problem. He says at least two transisters are blown out. That's why the "solenoids" aren't working and the pressure bar isn't coming down...I have NO idea what that means except that it's a hassle. He said he has to take the bottom circuit board apart to locate exactly what's blown. So after this bill (and adding up the four shipping charges both ways) I basically could have bought a new GS1200! [Mad]

[Mad]

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

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From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted November 17, 2006 12:41 AM

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Hi Brian,

I don't post very often now but do like to browse here now and then, i must admit though that this thread was brought to my attention and just had to read through. I do feel for you as i would have been utterly heart broken if that had happened to my GS when it had it's recording problem, but i was lucky to have Kev's capable hands near by. [Smile]

[Smile]

I hope now that Leon can finally get this sorted for you and does not put you off owning this wonderful piece of 8mm history.

Paul said that Leon is considered the expert in the US for these machines so fingers crossed it will be sorted.

Chris.

--------------------
The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 17, 2006 11:19 AM

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Chris - Thanks for the encouragement! I don't think I will ever give up on my GS1200... that would have happened already. I love it too much. The GS really takes super 8 up a notch - which I am learning more than ever now that I am stuck using my backup projectors!

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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posted November 17, 2006 01:13 PM

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Hi Brian,
Keep in mind that GS1200'S are very rugged machines, built like tanks for the most part, so even though things occasionally go wrong with them, once fixed they are probably good for another couple of decades.
This morning I completed what I can only call' open heart surgery' on one of my GS'S. The problem was that the take up was not working. Leon told me that it was probably one of the relays, and I purchased a new relay off him. Well I had to take out that massive control board and de-solder the old relay, which has 14 pins on it, and it was murder getting it off the board. While I was doing the job I thought 'this is the end of my GS1200' ! I finally got the new relay soldered in , and everything connected back up and bolted down. I plugged in the power cord, said a silent prayer, and switched on. Lo and behold everything works! Take up reel now spins away without hesitation! [Wink]

[Wink]

So, if a cluge like me can fix a GS, I am positive that an expert like Leon will eventually have your machine running like new.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 902
From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 17, 2006 03:29 PM

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I wish there was a "How to Fix Your GS1200" night-course offered at the local university. I would sign up for that in a second. What I would save in repairs would easily pay for the class... Right now, I know how to turn it on and off and that's about it. I'm terrified of messing around with the inside parts... in the past every time I have tried to fix something I have ended up making matters worse. So I'm definitely going to leave this all to Leon.

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 27, 2006 03:50 PM

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An update on my GS 1200 saga: Leon left me a message Friday (that I luckily missed) saying that he had given up on my projector and it was done for. He said it had received a major power surge (which still baffles me since there was no sign of that happening) and the circuit board was just too fried to fix... Luckily, by the time he reached me on Saturday he had a breakthrough and said after rebuilding the board he got the unit to work again. So..... he's going to test it for the next couple days and then it should be ready to ship back. I'll write again when it's back home. I have to admit that I'm kind of scared to even use it since after 30 minutes or so something else gives out... I'm going to start crossing my fingers again now!

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