8mm Forum: Newbie needs help with film formats

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Topic: Newbie needs help with film formats

Bill Walsh
Junior
Posts: 13
From: Wolfeboro NH
Registered: Jul 2008

posted October 13, 2008 01:23 PM

Hi all

I inherited several boxes of films from my parents which consist of home-movies of us kids and misc. family. Lots of sentimental value to me. I intend to transfer as much as feasible to DVD to share with my siblings etc...

Being a newbie to reel films I am trying to understand the different film sizes. There are a number of large 7" metal and plastic reels with what look like 8mm film on them. I received a Bolex 18-5 projector with the boxes of stuff and have found out that it will only play these large reels. The bulk of what I got was the small(3 inch ?) plastic reels which I believe are all Super 8mm. I unfortunately can't play them on the Bolex I have. There was another projector that came with the shipment which is a Kodak Ektasound Moviedeck. the bad news is that it isn't working correctly. It won't feed the film. I am about to tear it apart and see if I can fix it.

I guess my question is; If I was to go onto E-bay and try to find a Super 8 projector, which brand/model should I look for ? I want something simple to operate and something that is reliable, yet I can't spend much money on it. Asking alot I know, but I am hoping someone can give me a suggestion.

Thanks a bunch

Bill

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted October 13, 2008 02:56 PM

Those Ektasound projectors are a real pain in the *** to work with. I know, I gave up on them.

Well, you've answered the question as to what film gauge you have; it's either standard 8mm or Super 8.

How do you tell?

Standard 8mm has bigger sprockets and smaller frames. Super 8mm has smaller sprockets and a larger frame. Why is this important?

Because, if you are merely looking to get these transferred to DVD, you don't want to really bother with a dual gauge projector, (Unless you have home movies in both formats). I'm willing to guess that you have Super 8, as, though the Ektasound was dual guage, most people bought those because they were shooting Super 8 sound film, (though there was a lot of standard 8mm sound prints too, but mostly professional store bought films.
I don't remember many people shooting in standard 8mm sound for home movies.

Once you've figured out the film guage, then you can go about buying a projector. If the film guage is standard 8mm, you'll probably spend less, as standard 8mm projectors tend to go for less.

Still, even if the guage is Super 8, there are many affordable options for, basically, one time use. I'm sure one of the other lads will jump in and give you some good advice on exactly which projector can be bought cheap, and still be somewhat reliable.

I hope that this helps.

OSI

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Bill Walsh
Junior
Posts: 13
From: Wolfeboro NH
Registered: Jul 2008

posted October 13, 2008 03:40 PM

Thanks Osi, that helps alot. Some of the stuff is 8mmm which I can play fine on the Bolex 18-5, but the bulk of what I have is Super 8mm on the little 3 inch plastic reels. I tried to take apart the Kodak and couldn' do it, so I'm going to junk it and try to pick up something that will play the Super 8mm. If they were recorded with sound, do I need something special, like a dual 8 ?

Thanks

Bill

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 13, 2008 04:59 PM

Hey Bill,

My first machine is a Kodak Moviedeck. Even though it doesn't see a huge amount of action these days it still works and performs reliably when I want it to.

-maybe I can help.

If you lower the side panel on the lens side of the projector, there is a leader trimmer. This is worth trying.

Are you sure you are threading the film with the sprockets on the correct side? Just before the slot there is a dashed marking to show you which is correct.

Are you turning the main switch to Run/thread and the direction switch to "forward" before you thread?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bill Walsh
Junior
Posts: 13
From: Wolfeboro NH
Registered: Jul 2008

posted October 13, 2008 05:33 PM

Hi Steve

Yes...I am sure I am loading it correctly. The side closest to me would have the holes(notches) in it. The problem is that when you try to move the control switch to play/thread position it won't stay there and automatically returns to rewind and rewinds the tape. If I hold it in place I can get the tape to feed and start projecting. When I let go it automatically starts rewinding. i followed the directions on the cover inside to remove broken pieces of film and there is nothing in there.

Any thoughts ?

Bill

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 13, 2008 06:01 PM

It's "film". "Tape" is for wrapping presents!

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. The moviedeck has an automatic rewind scheme where the film is anchored to the supply reel and when the film tension becomes high the machine automatically stops and rewinds through the projection path. If this is coming on all the time either the supply spindle is binding or the tension sensor is shot. If either case the machine really is broken.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bill Walsh
Junior
Posts: 13
From: Wolfeboro NH
Registered: Jul 2008

posted October 13, 2008 06:14 PM

Yes, film, not tape, sorry ! Told you I was a newbie...lol

Ok...sounds like you really know this machine. Is it worth trying to fix it or just buy a new(used)Super 8 machine ?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 13, 2008 06:54 PM

If it's anything like the Kodak slide projector I once tried to repair, it could be a real pain! I couldn't believe how complex that was!

I've never tried to really take apart my own Moviedeck since it's never broken down, but just from the poking around I've done with cleaning the projection path, it doesn't look very service-friendly.

What can you say though? You've decided to toss it anyway, so there's no harm in sitting down with your choice of soothing beverage and some hand tools and seeing what you can do with it. Maybe you will fix it, maybe you'll spend an hour (or so) and still throw it out.

The tension sensor is a lever that the film does a sharp left turn around right after it comes off the reel. The supply spindle should be easy to spin with two fingers when the machine is in normal forward motion.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 14, 2008 08:45 AM

Where's that SONS topic?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 14, 2008 08:53 AM

General Yak, August 21st.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Raymond J. Santoro
Junior
Posts: 28
From: Tucson, AZ USA
Registered: Oct 2008

posted October 20, 2008 01:35 AM

I used to own a Kodak Moviedeck projector, and I would like to add a comment, or more specifically word of caution. Unlike most movie projectors, the Moviedeck advances film using rollers instead of a sprocket drive. What happens is that the more you project your film with it, the more scratches appear on your footage due to the rollers coming in direct contact with the film. I would avoid using this kind of projector if at all possible.

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