8mm Forum: Format wars, incl Super 8mm vs Std 8mm

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Topic: Format wars, incl Super 8mm vs Std 8mm

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 27, 2009 09:43 PM

We have experienced many format wars in this Audio-visual business.

On Home Video format there was Betamax (introduced by Sony) vs VHS (Panasonic). It was won by VHS, and Betamax died.

And recently Blu-Ray (Sony cs) vs HD DVD (Toshiba) which was won by Blu-Ray. HD DVD was discontinued.

However, in celluloid format we have super 8mm and standard 8mm, but there is an anti-thesis from the above experiences that both formats were developed by Kodak and the two format are used to date.

What do you think make this different ?

Why Kodak developed both formats (not like the above examples whiche were developed by different companies due to the format wars/business strategy).

Lastly, why Standard 8mm was not discontinued knowing the users are lesser than super 8mm?

cheers,

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Winbert

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008

posted January 27, 2009 10:47 PM

When Kodak created the Std 8 guage in 1932 (Approx.)It was slit in half from 16mm stock.The sproket holes were the same size as 16mm,therefore taking up more space leaving less room for the image.In 1964,they came up with the Super 8 format,reducing the sprocket sizenot being slit from 16mm.Hence the term single 8.It was introduced for the Instamatic film cameras.For years,Std 8 collectors were reluctant to switch over,because Super 8 projectors were all self threading and the early ones were pretty bad,eating film like crazy.Std 8 didn't die off as quickly as thought and there are still many,myself included who prefer it for silent films.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted January 28, 2009 02:57 AM

Winbert, Beta didn't die per se. The system being far better than VHS, it was adopted by the pros and used for shooting and linear editing until the avent of digital.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Mike Tynus
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 135
From: Addison, IL, USA
Registered: Apr 2008

posted January 28, 2009 12:11 PM

Actually, just to clarify, Betamax did die. The pro format is Betacam, a completely different recording format. The only thing they share is the same tape width and shell, much like how Standard 8 and Super 8 share the same 8mm film width. [Wink]

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 28, 2009 12:45 PM

I think one reason Standard-8 survives is because it so naturally results from the production of 16mm: it's the same thing just perforated twice as many times per length of film. If it had the added expense of the Super-8 cartridge it may not have held on like it has.

From what I've heard, Kodak at least at the beginning imagined Super-8 being a useful format for things like TV news where portability is such a bonus. While I doubt they imagined news people shooting 50 foot cartridges, I think a spool loaded super-8 camera with sound on film would have actually been good for this purpose. Unfortunately the professionals stayed with 16mm and eventually video without it even beginning to happen.

My experience with Super-8 makes me wonder why it didn't catch on more for classroom film presentation. I project it on a lot bigger screen than my teachers used to show 16mm films on and it looks great. You would think the lighter and cheaper films and equipment would have impressed educators into giving it a shot.

Super-8 was basically a recognition that the 16mm sized sprocket holes on Std. 8 were not an efficient use of the available film area to produce a high resolution image.

The shame of the whole thing is the cartridge design that came with it sometimes wastes the larger frame area by not keeping the film oriented in sharp focus. (...which bring us to Single-8)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008

posted January 28, 2009 11:48 PM

Steve,if you remember the kids in AV and the teachers who ran the films in school,they were hell on 16mm and would have destroyed any 8mm they got their hands on!

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 29, 2009 05:48 AM

I my high school it was teachers only running the projector.

(Which is pretty odd considering I went to a technical high school!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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