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Author
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Topic: Aspect ratio in S/8 'scope prints
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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted September 27, 2009 09:08 AM
Dear fellow S/8 enthusiasts, after purchasing an Elmo xenon, I started turning these thoughts in my mind, which I'd like to share with you.
First of all, S/8 Scope Prints are struck in such a way as to fill up the whole standard frame, in the vast majority of cases (the only exception I know of is the Derann stunnigly sharp short "Trail Mix-Up"). To achieve this, given the different aspect ratio of the non-desqueezed 35 mm scope frame (which is somewhere near 1:1,2), the lab must cut tiny portions of the original frame above and below. This way, the standard S/8 frame is full BUT when projecting you don't get a 1:2.35 aspect ratio as it should be, but 1:2.66; in my opinion not only is such an aspect ratio too stretched horizontally and thus not always suitable for living-room screenings (or even home movie theatre set ups); you also have to take into account the possibility that some details near the horizontal edges got lost during the process of optical reduction/printing. Indeed this is all too obvious if you see the opening titles of "Alien": one card is really too close to the lower edge. And I take it for granted there can be more examples.
This does not happen with the above mentioned short, which has black sides on the left and right portions of the image, yelding a perfect 1:2.35 aspect ratio. That would be perfect if the frame masking in the projector were cut accordingly.
So I think that in the future perhaps new scope prints (???) should be done like this short; in the meanwhile, people with aklnowledgeable skills in manual manufacturing might perhaps 'concoct' a system to switch the frame aperture from standard S/8 (1:1.33) to scope S/8 (1:1.2). I presume this might be easier with the Elmo xenon as the frame aperture is on the pressure plate, not on the gate as is the case with the 99% of projectors. Perhaps there is a way to replicate the original pressure plate with a system enabling a rapid change from one A/R to another: probably it should be possible to rely on a two-set of plates, one for each A/R and a system to mount the needed one in place before projection.
So I was wondering if any you has ever had 'insane' ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) thoughts like this. Do you think it might be doable or not? Do you know any facilities that can replicate the wonderfully machined Elmo pressure plate?
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Maurizio
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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted September 27, 2009 10:41 AM
I support your ideas 100% and I will NEVER give up on super 8 sound as a format. I just love it too much.
Some Kempski prints were done on super 8 scope at 2.35. One of them I have is Kubrick's 2001. The problem with this print is between the 400 foot reels during the feature, the vertical letter boxing is not the same. It shifts back and forth left and right and is rarely perfectly centered.
And, I feel the best way to get the most out of the 2.35 effect, is to add video projection. As far as I know, most cinemascope prints in theaters are 16 x 9 encoded nowadays. Just read the back of the DVD package for this information. If it was scope in theaters and indicates 16 x 9 on the package, then you're all set.
Now this is not cast in stone. Sometimes a director shoots the movie in SUPER 35. Which I believe, is a flat version at the time of shooting, but allows for scope prints to be released in theaters, but flat versions to be released on other formats. I'm not an expert with this so I really do not know for sure how that works. But I've heard of it. And in rare cases, they shoot the movie twice, one for each given format.
It will be far easier to bite the bullet, jump on the band wagon, and add video projection to your super 8 set up than to try and organize a movement to get more scope features done on the expensive film format. You'll be sitting around watching reruns waiting for that to happen.
I've made this change with no regrets. Obviously, the menu of titles in the stores are endless! And so easy to purchase price-wise and locate!
Long live super 8 sound as well!
Chip G
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 27, 2009 03:32 PM
Sadly, i don't think, (except for occasional CHC releases, and the german labs, which CHC uses anyhow), there will be anymore of a chance for scope features coming out. The End has already passed for that.
We're down to shorts, ads and cartoons, but we have had a most excellent run!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 27, 2009 09:18 PM
The image quality has continued to improve over the years on Super, really stunning me a lot of the time.
Cinevision started out really good, (they were, I believe, one of the first to make consistent scope releases), but there were some truly awful scope prints. I remember having a scope 200ft of "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend", which looked like it was taken from some Marilyn Monroe documentary, and the image was awful, (as well as pretty dark).
The Kempski prints were pretty darned good, along with the Derann's. My recent aquisition of "Revenge of the Sith" (first 30 minutes) has an exquisite image, great focus, and I have had a lot of fun seeing just how wide and sharp I can make it, (covering outside on the side of a barn in the middle of the night ... awesome)!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008
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posted September 28, 2009 03:47 AM
David,
I am working mainly from my own recollections of reports in ACW at the time. I would think the ROXY in New York, where it was first shown in September 1953 for one. It subsequently premiered in UK in November 1953....
http://www.hifimuseum.de/sound-restoration-teil-10.html
SCROLL down to 10.6 "Four Channel recordings in the cinema" where it points out that the 4-channel Sepmag was already in existence for "House of Wax" (which I also saw in it's original 2 strip form).
I haven't found specific UK cinemas by searching the web; but I was 16 at the time and intensely interested in all the new innovations. Being at College in London (yes,at 16!) I was right in the middle of where it all was going on and my memories of those days are pin sharp.
I didn't see "The Robe" until 1954, when the local cinema in Southampton converted, with FULL Stereophonic sound (WOW!)...
and a screen about half the height of the previous one to accomodate the new ratio! I missed the opening in London as I couldn't afford London prices, moving to Southampton for 8 months Practical as part of the course in January 1954, but I presume the cinema would have been whichever one was associated with 20th Century Fox.
EDIT; This is of interest...
http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9D06E0D71339E23BBC4F52DFBF668388649EDE
Note the screen dimensions quoted: 68 x 24 feet. Now work out the ratio!!!
Martin
[ September 28, 2009, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: Martin Jones ]
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Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....
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