8mm Forum: Good projectors variable speed for telecine

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Topic: Good projectors variable speed for telecine

Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 17, 2010 10:07 AM

Good projectors with variable speed for telecine, of course taking the Elmo 1200 and 708 beaulieu???

What are the best and cheapest options?

Regards
Jorge

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Jon Addams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 638
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Apr 2007

posted March 17, 2010 01:38 PM

Hi Jorge,

Sound and or Silent projectors? Regular 8 Super 8 or Dual 8? Variable Speed? Answers to these question would be helpful.

Jon

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 17, 2010 01:48 PM

GS-1200 Yes
ST-1200 No

The ST has an AC motor and short of having a motor-generator set in your house it's pretty much stuck at whatever line frequency tells it to be.

Lots of Eumigs have a mechanically continuously variable frame rate. I use a Bolex SP-80, (which is a Eumig 800 series in disguise) for telecine and I've been pleased with the results

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 17, 2010 02:42 PM

Sound projectors! Super 8 or Dual 8.!
The Eumig 810D as variable?
Thanks Jon.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 17, 2010 02:54 PM

Jorge,do you want to transfer sound films?

Telecine with sound gets kind of interesting. My cheapo projector, screen and camcorder setup is fine with silent films. I tune the machine to about 20 FPS until the camcorder stops flickering and I'm there.

It's hard to keep it this simple with sound because it doesn't take too much variation for film speed for it to sound odd. I have a machine that is running a little less than 23 FPS and women's voices sound a little...masculine. Music actually sounds like it's changed key. By the time you got to 20 FPS it would be either hysterical or unlistenable.

I believe 24 FPS Telecine requires a five bladed shutter. Then the slight variation around that speed to get rid of the flicker would still leave the sound sounding correct.

Yes, 810 is variable. 810D is variable and does R8 films as well.

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 17, 2010 06:17 PM

Thank you Steve, my main function is telecine my silent films and most of the 18fps, just wanting a sound projector to see my sound movies, not been to these telecine.
So I think it has answered my question, is the best option uming 810, being much cheaper than a beaulieu or st1200.
I had read anything about the 5 blades that were necessary for the correct reading at 24fps, so I choose the more easiest.
Thank you very much.

Regards
Jorge

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 18, 2010 05:46 AM

I've been watching the 810 manual and it seems that not variable speed, I do not see where is the button that does it, is that I am afraid to buy a projector and spend money and then not serve my purposes.
Sorry for my insistence, please help me make the right choice.
If you can give various options I thank.
Regards
Jorge

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 18, 2010 06:04 AM

The 810 should have a slider located near where the take-up reel arm is hinged on the machine chassis.

This is what it looks on my Bolex/Eumig like with the side cover removed (Eumig 810 should be the same). The 600 foot reel is in the picture's upper-left, and the end of the film path is bottom-center.

[ March 18, 2010, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: Steve Klare ]

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted March 18, 2010 09:17 AM

Jorge,
Steve Klare refers to setting the speed to 20 fps to avoid flicker; That is only true in the USA; in Portugal you need to set it to 16.67 fps.
The 810 is a great machine for transfers. I would suggest you use the mechanical speed control to set the speed to slightly more...about 17.5 fps... and then feed the whole machine from a ordinary light dimmer control (one about 300 watts is sufficient) to reduce it to the correct speed. That makes it much easier to keep the speed right during transfer.
(General note: Yes, you can use a thyristor type dimmer to speed control on this machine, and on ANY machine using a "shaded pole" AC motor).
Martin.

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Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 18, 2010 02:36 PM

Thank you both for the precious help.
Best regards
Jorge

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 19, 2010 04:48 AM

One more thing:, the dimmer that I can bind the whole machine, will not be preferable to connect to the entrance of ac motor to not diminish the intensity of the lamp?
Regards
Jorge

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 08, 2010 06:29 AM

Hi Martin Jones, I have a problem!
After finally getting the projector I wanted at a good price Euming S 807 D, I bought the dimmer to test speed reduction, but when connected to the dimmer the projector makes a strange humming and will not start even with the dimmer in max. Is that dimmer is not appropriate? is a normal dimmer to lights(min 60w max 500w).
I feed the whole machine with the dimmer.
After disconnecting the dimmer was about two minutes without start!!!

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 08, 2010 10:00 AM

Jorge,

You cannot use the AC dimmer for DC motor.

What kind of motor is your projector AC or DC?

cheers

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Winbert

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 08, 2010 12:57 PM

I do not know, the manual says nothing about it, is a Euming Mark S 807D.
Thanks

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 09, 2010 06:55 AM

I find now, is an AC motor magnetic.

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted July 09, 2010 08:07 AM

Jorge,
The 800 series Eumigs use a "shaded pole" AC motor which can be speed controlled using a "dimmer". First you set the speed higher than you need (with the dimmer control at maximum) by using the projector speed lever and then use the dimmer to reduce the speed to what you want.
BUT... not all dimmers seem to work correctly. I usually recommend something like this http://www.quasarelectronics.com/cr0008-230v-ac-motor-speed-controller-modul es-375w-750w-1500w.htm

375w is plenty for such a motor, it probably only takes about 60 watts maximumum (which might be why some domestic dimmers do not work, they have a MINIMUM rating). It's best to disconnect both motor wires from the machine and connect them to the output of the controller. Then the lamp is not affected.
Good luck, these are great machines,
Martin

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Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 09, 2010 03:11 PM

Thanks, I´m gone a try.

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 12, 2010 04:59 PM

Now yes, it was the dimmer, now with this dimmer by putting the speed of the projector at 24 and connected to dimmer can already down from 18 fps but with caution because it stops just in a short space dimmer.
Tanks Martin.
Regards

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