8mm Forum: Super 8mm film with water damage

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Topic: Super 8mm film with water damage

Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 13, 2012 11:10 AM

Hi,

A customer who was affected by Hurricane Sandy brought in some water damaged Super 8mm film today. At the moment I am letting the film dry out because the customer froze the film after it was submerged in water. But now since the film is unthawing the footage is lifting off the film. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to handle water damaged film.

Thank you

fields

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fields

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 13, 2012 12:04 PM

If it is only water, I don't see water can damage films especially if we dry it up instantly.

In fact our member here Osi freeze his films in a refrigerator and this is certainly will build up moist.

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Winbert

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted November 13, 2012 12:22 PM

Stupid question ... Why would he freeze his films?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 13, 2012 12:29 PM

If the emulsionn has already started to lift there would appear to be no method of repair. Even if the film dries out the emulsion loss will be very noticeable.

I think that Osi probably keeps his films at a low temperature but does not actually freeze them.

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Maurice

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted November 13, 2012 12:48 PM

I Would agree there Maurice, the damage has already been done
and the water has got between the base and emulsion, lifted
when frozen and will be ruined when thawed.How very sad.

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted November 13, 2012 12:58 PM

I would think that freezing a film that was wet would be the totally wrong thing to do. The best thing to be done would be to slowly wind it through soft lint-free cloth to dry it. And do this asap. And after treat it with some form of lubricant/cleaner. Sadly the one I used to use 2:22 went years ago.

Storing films in a cool or freezing environment is a totally different process. The archives store film in a cool environment, controlling the humidity. The cooler the temperature the slower the film deteriorates.

Have seen on this forum mention of films bought from different parts of the US. Unless stored in climate controlled area, films from the hotter states would deteriorate a lot faster than films from the colder areas.

I would think the emulsion softened and stuck to the film base. Sadly my view is that the film could be beyond hope.

Please let us know if you had any success in rescuing the film.

We in the UK complain about the weather, but although we do get floods, high winds, and others things, we are lucky they don't always arrive at the same time.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted November 13, 2012 01:12 PM

I would hope that there wasn't a Grizzly Adams destroyed in that collection! [Eek!]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 13, 2012 02:14 PM

Thanks for all of the suggestions!

I was talking to Urbanski films today and Larry mentioned a product called "film renew." He said that it will basically lubricate the film so that it doesn't stick together when I begin to unwind the film.

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fields

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 14, 2012 11:14 AM

Fields

It might happen to one of us one day, so please keep the Forum informed of your progress.

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Maurice

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Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 16, 2012 12:36 PM

The precipitation from freezing the reels lifted the emulsion off of the film, which caused the footage to disappear. At the time I didn't have any film renew to prevent the emulsion from lifting, so I laid the film out to dry.

The film finished drying after a day, but now it was stuck to itself. I didn't have any drying racks for the film at the time so I had to let the film dry in the spools that they came in. This created problems because unwinding the film was difficult since the emulsion adhered itself to the film.To remove the stickiness I used Edwal's Anti-stat film cleaner to clean the film.

After wiping down the film with this film cleaner I was able to digitize the footage. The majority of the footage that disappeared was at the beginning of the reel. I am providing a still to show what water damaged film looks like.

Thanks to everyone who replied

all is well

fields

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fields

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted November 16, 2012 03:11 PM

Byron, so sorry to see this. I agree that the forces inherent to freezing the moisture did this in. With most good film stock, it can sit in water all day and not damage the emulsion so long as nothing touches it that would cause abrasion.

Last year I messed up my final film purchase from Derann by winding polyester-base film still wet with Film Renew. It left visible puddle lines on the emulsion when it dried, probably because polyester can't breathe like acetate and it dried unevenly. Some of it looked horrible! I ended up soaking all 600' of this material in clean water 20' at a time, wiping it down and air drying each section. Thus the emulsion dried flat, problem gone, projection then looked normal. Sorry Byron you couldn't do something like that to the now-damaged film.

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Jake Mayes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Bath, UK
Registered: Sep 2012

posted November 16, 2012 03:19 PM

Freezing the film while wet caused the damage! Think, the emulsion has soaked the water, then that water expands as it freezes! What should have been done is rinsed through many times with clean water to clean it after removing stubborn dirt with an appropriate material, then giving it a stabilising bath.

Job done... Too late to turn the tables now [Frown]

Once the emulsion has begun to come off, its game over.

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