8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Responses Needed! Pricing On New Reel Image Releases (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Responses Needed! Pricing On New Reel Image Releases
Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 23, 2014 10:03 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I dunno, still not sure I'll be going to Wildwood

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 24, 2014 02:02 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to say, regrettably, I'm with Tom here.

These prices are just too much.

Going back even less than 10 years, super 8 extracts could still rival good video projection and with Derann producing "in-house", costs were kept within reason.

So you could just about justify showcasing 30 minutes of say, "The Matrix", at around 3 x the cost of the whole movie on DVD to your family & mates.

But now, HD formats have come so far both in their accessibility and cost that paying excessively for source material is, well, devotion at best.

There are many good points raised on this forum regarding concerns over "video" projection and I personally still accept most of those points.

There are still a lot of problems to address when it comes down to ye old "video vs. film" debate.

The point of discussion I'd like to take forward in another thread is that there are now probably more digital source / presentation options than there ever was regarding film; which doesn't by any means make it better, oh no, just more confusing.

But, gasp, digital presentation can actually now look like film when presented properly. There, I said it. But you still need mega bucks. I think most of the viewer issues on the forum regarding digital presentation are down to bad digital presentation!

And personally, I think these prices for film are mega bucks, which, just possibly may be best saved and spent wisely elsewhere...

PS. Lee's post regarding lack of sound balance stripe is significant. This was an issue years back with Walton films who produced great quality prints but penny-pinched by not applying balance stripe; result - soft focus down one side of the image, especially in 'scope. This was a cost saving exercise that reduced presentation quality. Ok, that was maybe acceptable at the time (circa 1970's - actually it wasn't and led to many complaints and a re-think by Walton!!!) but we can't seriously go back to that and pay premium money???

Or bulky, brittle acetate.

Film is beautiful, but I reckon it is time to move on and embrace and evolve the beauty of new opportunities.

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 24, 2014 03:56 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
& we did say some years ago, the death of dear Mr Simmons was the beginning of the end, now Derann are gone this has accelerated greatly, I will certainly look after what we have and I will still buy sensible priced second hand cine films but I simply cannot justify £175 for just 30 minutes worth of movie.

I did note the other day on radio 2 here, that 80% of cinemas budgets now goes on the sound system & Not the picture, and of course the modern home cinema also concentrates on sound, the films,(or should I say discs) are so cheap now you can pick up movies in boots sales for £1 or less, so sad but a sign of the times.

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 24, 2014 04:19 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom, not sure modern home theatre does really only concentrate on the sound (I know for a fact that isn't my case!!! Although, it is important and has far more potential now than ever).

I know what you mean though, and for a long time (1980's - 1990's) main stream, ie. big audio / visual names did only try to sell sound systems as "home cinema" and ignore the picture quality aspect.

Mostly because the video presentation options were, well, crap. Whilst all the time, there was good old super 8 offering superior vision...not that anyone would listen or care, especially the big boy manufacturers. Although, that made us film collectors elite in our own time!

Today, the options are varied and above all, potentially better.

Just to re-state. I'm an absolute die-hard film nut! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

But, maybe we can start another thread with regard to digital here.

My experience is that when people who are really passionate about things, say, old school technology meets new school technology, there is so often such a mutual respect and appreciation that only good things are derived. [Wink]

We have to move on. Industry drives new stuff at us all the time, simply to make us buy things.

"This is better!!!", even though, as so many of us know, it ain't...but sell it right (ie. you're sooo out dated) and many will buy in...

But then market is driven by demand and sometimes, even, passion, and products do arrive to market that are actually the result of market forces and passion from the manufacturer...yes, shock, this does still happen.

Digital isn't the devil.

Good digital isn't cheap either, although you can buy digital cheap.

In the hey-day, super 8 could be good, although you certainly could buy cheap super 8 equipment and make it look rubbish, as seems to be the psyche of contemporary audiences.

There was a time when I went out of my way to make super 8 look and sound the best.

But, controversial kill-joy as I am, I'm going to say; these prices for film are too much given the audio / visual reward.

 |  IP: Logged

John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted March 27, 2014 10:06 AM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Well said, Rob.

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 27, 2014 12:21 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since getting into digital projection in my home, my super 8 purchases have taken a change. I now find that I prefer to use super 8 to supplement a digital feature. So I look out for the short 200 or 400ft subjects the most, cartoons, newsreels, Pathe Pics and Look at Life's etc. These all work really great as supporting material for the main feature. So I will continue to pucrchase these on the used market, and if something really interesting came along, as a new print. I still get enormous enjoyment from all aspects of film projection and that will certainly continue for me.
HD Digital projection in the home is now so good that it is indistinguishable from digital projection in the professional cinema. Yes - home cinema can now be as good, or better, than the multiplex, really stunning PQ for the most part. And it does not cost megabucks to buy a really high performing digital projector - just the cost of a few super 8 features. But you must use digital projection on a big screen in a dark room just like you do super 8 - a large flat panel TV just does not cut it, at least for me.
I got into digital projection 10 years ago and I can honestly say that it has brought more enjoyment to me and my family than any other purchase I have made.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

 |  IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted March 27, 2014 03:23 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The topic seems to slide to a discussion super 8 versus digital, which I think was not the purpose. Nobody can say that super 8 is cheap and that digital has no advantages. But is that the point ? I said several times that I am not looking for perfection but for pleasure. Can I get perfection with digital ? Probably. Can I get the same pleasure I have with film ? As many of us, I am not a millionaire but I try to support the hobby. Discouraging new attempts to keep film alive by negative comments seems not a good idea.

--------------------
Dominique

 |  IP: Logged

Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 27, 2014 04:26 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree we've gotten somewhat off topic. I am not looking to replace one format with another. However, it is useful to know that longtime collectors Tom, Rob and John feel that any new releases are not worth the current prices.

Many early Castle releases had only a main stripe. I've never seen a difference in across the frame focus or smoothness of projection between films with or without a balance stripe, scope of flat. It could be that certain brands' pressure plates do a better job than others. Having said that, I would prefer stereo prints but if that's not an option with the current state of polyester science (Poli Sci majors take note!) that would not stop me from buying a film.

For me it still comes down to what the titles are.

Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 27, 2014 06:13 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I think Tom speaks for most of us mere mortals regarding the prices of new prints, however despite my modest means, I for one, would always strive for prints that are "a must have" and if anyone can release complete 600ft classics as good as Mickey's Christmas Carol in both print quality and sheer
"collectabilty" ,then I for one, would always strive to afford such fantastic prints, but probably only EVER project them through a Bauer to ensure they last my lifetime unscathed!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 28, 2014 01:28 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, yes, I see I am sliding off topic!

My point in bringing up digital was to level my argument that these prices are too high, in my opinion.

I think it's a shame and know that the price is the result of market forces and that new releases are as much a labour of love as anything else. I just don't think these prices justify the return.

But that's just my opinion, of course, and think it is great that many collectors are happy and willing to pay these prices.

I really didn't want to be negative with regard to new releases and such, maybe in retrospect, I'd have been better just to keep quiet.

Long live super 8! [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 28, 2014 06:05 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The prices are steep for sure:

-you buy less, you appreciate more.

A lot of us already have libraries of several hundred prints to begin with, we don't really need a lot more anyway.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 28, 2014 09:15 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob,

Willing, yes. Happy is stretching it a bit.

Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 28, 2014 09:55 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I found out you could still get new Super-8 prints a dozen years back I thought it was absolutely astounding.

That there are any available at all today is next to miraculous!

(I wonder if anybody still makes 8 track tapes?)

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted March 28, 2014 11:24 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I wonder if anybody still makes 8 track tapes?)
No, but the kids in bands today have really taken to cassettes, and there are brand new cassette only labels putting out new music.. [Confused]

--------------------
"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

 |  IP: Logged

Jim Downey
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Dayton Ohio
Registered: May 2013


 - posted July 21, 2014 10:29 AM      Profile for Jim Downey   Email Jim Downey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As the curator of Steve Osborne's website, I thought it would be of interest to all of you who lent their helpful comments to this thread to see the list of new Super 8 feature titles that have been chosen:
 -
Steve Osborne's The Reel Image

 |  IP: Logged

Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted July 21, 2014 10:38 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sure, I saw E.T. and was interested. Wrote an email to Steve Osborne and as almost always, no reply

I wonder if it's me they hate or dislike? Same with CHC, almost never get replies

 |  IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted July 21, 2014 11:52 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd still love to see those first 30 or so minutes of "Saving Private Ryan" (the D-Day landing sequence!) as an extract!! I'd be one of the first with the "cash on the barrel-head"! [Smile]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged

Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted July 21, 2014 12:48 PM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm with Steve, less is more.
As I've mentioned before for me personally I would rather use the time it takes for a brand new release to become available to save up and get a limited edition print for my collection. Capt America took nearly 12 months to reach me which was not a problem as it only worked out very few pounds a week with plenty of time to save in the change box and the excitement when it did finally arrive was priceless, unlike waltzing down to the supermarket for a disc which will be worth 50p in a couple of years.

I would rather have the Acetate stock due to Stereo stripe.

 |  IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 21, 2014 01:41 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Vidar, I always got answer from CHC.

--------------------
Dominique

 |  IP: Logged

Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted July 21, 2014 03:04 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I got the 16mm updated list the other day, saw Terminator 16mm and immediately ordered it. No response after that at all. I am so sure I won't get it, even though I sent the reply only seconds after recieving it. It must be me they hate then :-(

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 21, 2014 05:15 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Vidar, i wouldn't take anything personal, it seems to happen to us all. It just seems that one or two dealers don't seem to bother about customer care and the likes. Sometimes, I have to admit, it feels as if it is they who are doing YOU the favour by selling you the film, not the other way around like traditional shopping.

Perhaps it is due simply to supply and demand, and lets face it, none of us have too many options these days as to where we shop. [Smile]

[ July 21, 2014, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 22, 2014 07:09 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just remember one thing...Steve Osborne has a full time job and a family. He does the film business totally out of love for the hobby. He is a one person operation. Cut him some slack. He's getting new releases out. He's putting out a magazine...he's handling used films and sending out lists periodically...he's selling much needed projectors, accessories...bulbs..splicers..just about anything you need...and doing it out of his house in his spare time.
He is sometimes up at 2 and 3 in the morning working to get orders out, etc. Again...all in the time he's not handling his full time job and family and home duties.

 |  IP: Logged

Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted July 22, 2014 07:26 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But still ... After a month, he should be able to reply, right? I appreciate the effort they're putting into the hobby, do not doubt that, but it's difficult when you don't get replies.

 |  IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted July 22, 2014 11:56 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree about the excessive prices, but nothing can really be done about that. I wish I had wads of cash to blow even on films I wouldn't regularly collect, (just to support the hobby), but that's not a possibility.

However, if the title is right, the cash will flow, none-the-less!

I know for a fact that he literally takes nothing off the top when it comes to pricing. He certainly doesn't make any real profit, beyond the sheer pleasure of still having super 8 available for the collector.

One very big bonus today (beyond the incredibly sharp image on these prints), the days of the yellowish acetate are GONE! I was always irked at buying a brand new print and having a yellowish stock which, sadly, did effect the overall color spectrum.

Now ... with the KODAK Vision polyester stock, the colors are allowed to really shine forth! Anyone who has purchased the prints on polyester can vouch for that.

When we did our "Saturday Morning Madness" prints a few years back, I made test prints on both acetate and the then new polyester Kodak Vision film stock and hands down, the Kodak Vision film stock was noticeably better!

Incredible kudos to this man who has survived, long after even the great ones (such as Derann) have had to call it a day. He's still there for the hobby and the collector!!!

(and let us not forget those in UK who also partner with him as well on many of these releases!)

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 23, 2014 09:40 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A&C MEET F would sell, there was a print out there with German sub-titles I think - Shorts is what I'm after and is my middle name, so it goes from that - If any "new' shorts are to be had, let them be from the MGM and RKO libraries - Shorty

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2