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Topic: Responses Needed! Pricing On New Reel Image Releases
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted March 24, 2014 02:02 PM
I have to say, regrettably, I'm with Tom here.
These prices are just too much.
Going back even less than 10 years, super 8 extracts could still rival good video projection and with Derann producing "in-house", costs were kept within reason.
So you could just about justify showcasing 30 minutes of say, "The Matrix", at around 3 x the cost of the whole movie on DVD to your family & mates.
But now, HD formats have come so far both in their accessibility and cost that paying excessively for source material is, well, devotion at best.
There are many good points raised on this forum regarding concerns over "video" projection and I personally still accept most of those points.
There are still a lot of problems to address when it comes down to ye old "video vs. film" debate.
The point of discussion I'd like to take forward in another thread is that there are now probably more digital source / presentation options than there ever was regarding film; which doesn't by any means make it better, oh no, just more confusing.
But, gasp, digital presentation can actually now look like film when presented properly. There, I said it. But you still need mega bucks. I think most of the viewer issues on the forum regarding digital presentation are down to bad digital presentation!
And personally, I think these prices for film are mega bucks, which, just possibly may be best saved and spent wisely elsewhere...
PS. Lee's post regarding lack of sound balance stripe is significant. This was an issue years back with Walton films who produced great quality prints but penny-pinched by not applying balance stripe; result - soft focus down one side of the image, especially in 'scope. This was a cost saving exercise that reduced presentation quality. Ok, that was maybe acceptable at the time (circa 1970's - actually it wasn't and led to many complaints and a re-think by Walton!!!) but we can't seriously go back to that and pay premium money???
Or bulky, brittle acetate.
Film is beautiful, but I reckon it is time to move on and embrace and evolve the beauty of new opportunities.
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted March 24, 2014 04:19 PM
Tom, not sure modern home theatre does really only concentrate on the sound (I know for a fact that isn't my case!!! Although, it is important and has far more potential now than ever).
I know what you mean though, and for a long time (1980's - 1990's) main stream, ie. big audio / visual names did only try to sell sound systems as "home cinema" and ignore the picture quality aspect.
Mostly because the video presentation options were, well, crap. Whilst all the time, there was good old super 8 offering superior vision...not that anyone would listen or care, especially the big boy manufacturers. Although, that made us film collectors elite in our own time!
Today, the options are varied and above all, potentially better.
Just to re-state. I'm an absolute die-hard film nut! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
But, maybe we can start another thread with regard to digital here.
My experience is that when people who are really passionate about things, say, old school technology meets new school technology, there is so often such a mutual respect and appreciation that only good things are derived.
We have to move on. Industry drives new stuff at us all the time, simply to make us buy things.
"This is better!!!", even though, as so many of us know, it ain't...but sell it right (ie. you're sooo out dated) and many will buy in...
But then market is driven by demand and sometimes, even, passion, and products do arrive to market that are actually the result of market forces and passion from the manufacturer...yes, shock, this does still happen.
Digital isn't the devil.
Good digital isn't cheap either, although you can buy digital cheap.
In the hey-day, super 8 could be good, although you certainly could buy cheap super 8 equipment and make it look rubbish, as seems to be the psyche of contemporary audiences.
There was a time when I went out of my way to make super 8 look and sound the best.
But, controversial kill-joy as I am, I'm going to say; these prices for film are too much given the audio / visual reward.
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted March 27, 2014 12:21 PM
Since getting into digital projection in my home, my super 8 purchases have taken a change. I now find that I prefer to use super 8 to supplement a digital feature. So I look out for the short 200 or 400ft subjects the most, cartoons, newsreels, Pathe Pics and Look at Life's etc. These all work really great as supporting material for the main feature. So I will continue to pucrchase these on the used market, and if something really interesting came along, as a new print. I still get enormous enjoyment from all aspects of film projection and that will certainly continue for me. HD Digital projection in the home is now so good that it is indistinguishable from digital projection in the professional cinema. Yes - home cinema can now be as good, or better, than the multiplex, really stunning PQ for the most part. And it does not cost megabucks to buy a really high performing digital projector - just the cost of a few super 8 features. But you must use digital projection on a big screen in a dark room just like you do super 8 - a large flat panel TV just does not cut it, at least for me. I got into digital projection 10 years ago and I can honestly say that it has brought more enjoyment to me and my family than any other purchase I have made.
-------------------- The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection, Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted July 21, 2014 05:15 PM
Vidar, i wouldn't take anything personal, it seems to happen to us all. It just seems that one or two dealers don't seem to bother about customer care and the likes. Sometimes, I have to admit, it feels as if it is they who are doing YOU the favour by selling you the film, not the other way around like traditional shopping.
Perhaps it is due simply to supply and demand, and lets face it, none of us have too many options these days as to where we shop. [ July 21, 2014, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
-------------------- "C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted July 22, 2014 11:56 AM
I agree about the excessive prices, but nothing can really be done about that. I wish I had wads of cash to blow even on films I wouldn't regularly collect, (just to support the hobby), but that's not a possibility.
However, if the title is right, the cash will flow, none-the-less!
I know for a fact that he literally takes nothing off the top when it comes to pricing. He certainly doesn't make any real profit, beyond the sheer pleasure of still having super 8 available for the collector.
One very big bonus today (beyond the incredibly sharp image on these prints), the days of the yellowish acetate are GONE! I was always irked at buying a brand new print and having a yellowish stock which, sadly, did effect the overall color spectrum.
Now ... with the KODAK Vision polyester stock, the colors are allowed to really shine forth! Anyone who has purchased the prints on polyester can vouch for that.
When we did our "Saturday Morning Madness" prints a few years back, I made test prints on both acetate and the then new polyester Kodak Vision film stock and hands down, the Kodak Vision film stock was noticeably better!
Incredible kudos to this man who has survived, long after even the great ones (such as Derann) have had to call it a day. He's still there for the hobby and the collector!!!
(and let us not forget those in UK who also partner with him as well on many of these releases!)
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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