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Author Topic: Curious about the new releases
Vidar Olavesen
Film God

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From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted May 25, 2014 03:55 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder ... When CHC and/or Reel Image talk of True Lies for example, do they always use a 35mm or would some of these be digital to start with? Captain America, was the master a digital source or 35mm?

Because I don't want to buy a digital Super 8 film

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Douglas Meltzer
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From: New York, NY, USA
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 - posted May 26, 2014 03:14 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Vidar,

Steve says the two titles you mentioned are from 35mm. I don't know of any Super 8mm releases from a digital source. I can think of a few that had analog video sources, though. Castle Films' last 200 footer, The Tall Ships, and Universal 8's Disco Beaver from Outer Space used negatives that were made from a video master.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted May 26, 2014 04:41 PM      Profile for Ernie Zahn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Vidar, digital film out is a very costly process so I doubt it would be a viable option.

However if you're wondering about what it was shot on. Captain America was a digitally shot movie. With the excpetion of the newsreel portions. Everything else was shot on the Arrive Alexa.

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Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted May 26, 2014 05:04 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So thats digital to film,to negative, to film bar a few small shots !!!

Might even be another negative in there after digital ?

Best Mark.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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From: New York, NY, USA
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 - posted May 26, 2014 05:41 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I apologize for going off topic here....

Ernie, the Arri Alexa was was used in only two sequences in Captain America. Those were the underwater scenes with the sub and the present day NY sequence. The majority of the film was shot using the Panavision Genesis digital camera system.

So....yes, CA: The First Avenger is basically a digitally (and excellently) shot movie released on celluloid.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

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From: Bristol,RI, USA
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 - posted May 26, 2014 05:54 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have worked on 7 feature films in the last 2 years and they were all shot using digital cameras. One film was shot with the monster Panavision cameras but I was told it was being transferred to digital for release. Also, the director was watching the recently shot scenes immediately on a digital replay system to see if reshoots were necessary. It was very cool because I also got to peek at it and see what I will look like on the big screen when the film is released this October.

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted May 26, 2014 06:20 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, Pasquale - great news!!! What's the title of this motion picture???

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Maurizio

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted May 26, 2014 07:11 PM      Profile for Ernie Zahn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doug. Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was mostly Arri Alexa. My mistake.

And Pat sounds really cool!

--------------------
Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Sunland, CA, USA
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 - posted May 26, 2014 07:20 PM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought First Avenger was shot mostly film. On imdb it states the negative format was 35mm. The new CA was shot all digital for sure. Was watching 3 Days to Kill and it was just awful. Blown out exteriors and funny looking faces with odd colors. The one thing that gives away a digital camera is the faces and I can't stand it. I like my faces to look natural in a normal movie.

Most films these days goes through a Digital Intermediate process except for Christopher Nolan's films. But it must at some point to get a DCP. Not sure about Quentin Tarantino.

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Greenwich, CT, USA
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 - posted May 26, 2014 07:38 PM      Profile for Ernie Zahn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Dark Knight films were edited on Avid.

Tarantino uses Avid as well. Though I'm sure he's not happy about it.

Though they were shot on film for sure.

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Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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From: New York, NY, USA
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 - posted May 26, 2014 10:14 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Getting back on topic, I believe the latest CHC Bond extract is from 35mm source material. I know Magoo Meets Frankenstein from The Reel Image is from a 35mm IB Tech print.

I was surprised a while back to discover that most of Derann's releases were from 16mm, albeit low-contrast prints rather than standard contrast projection prints.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Enfield, U.K.
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 - posted May 27, 2014 03:17 AM      Profile for Barry Attwood   Email Barry Attwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think most of Derann's extract from classic features came from 16mm (I know the "Oklahoma" extract was definitely) and some of there features "First Men In The Moon" was. and that turned out to be an excellent 8mm print, although there later extracts were taken off 35mm ("Gladiator" - "Pearl Harbor" etc.)

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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 - posted May 28, 2014 12:32 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder what the source material was for the Kemspki scope feature releases, as they have SUCH great contrast, sharpness as well as low grain to them.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Pete Richards
Master Film Handler

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From: Australia
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 - posted May 28, 2014 06:51 PM      Profile for Pete Richards   Email Pete Richards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry, there is no reason for faces to look mis-coloured when shot on digital. None at all. The colourist (that's me!) is responsible for skintones, and the gamut and dynamic range is just as wide on the later digital cameras as it was on film.
There have been some appaling jobs done on skintones on BD releases, both from film and digital masters (The Star Wars trilogy is an example of horrible skintones).

If you didn't mind the faces in CA, then that is the proof in the pudding, the first Captain America was shot completely digitally, I was on-set for two days, and they were using the Panavision Genesis rigs.
As stated in this thread the Arri Alexa was used for the underwater sequences.
So Vidar, wherever it is sourced from, you would be getting a "digital Super 8 film" I'm afraid.

http://www.panavision.com/marvels-latest-superhero-captain-america-first-avenger

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Barry Attwood
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From: Enfield, U.K.
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 - posted May 28, 2014 11:53 PM      Profile for Barry Attwood   Email Barry Attwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi,

Most of the Kempski releases came from 35mm, as these were from original print sources supplied to them from the various original releasing companies.

[ May 29, 2014, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Barry Attwood ]

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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 - posted May 29, 2014 01:23 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Barry, I always assumed, but never knew for a fact. You look at those prints and your still amazed.

This might be slightly off the topic, but did Kempski "edit" his releases for content at times? I have a "Logans Run" print that has the nudity edited out of it, and it wasn't done before the film was printed, I wonder if that was done by Kempski, or by someone who, well, couldn't tolerate the "sex shop" scene and such.

I ask as it sounds like some other people who own that print also don't have the nudity in they're prints of this title.

[Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted May 29, 2014 01:32 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So effectively really any new releases of up to date bits will, even if from a 35mm source will be from an origional digital source.

Having seen 16mm from 1080p digital I thought it looked film like, in fact better than a lot of film, but as I say still looked filmie.

I would think the best bet in that sense now then would be Digital straight to a Super 8mm possitive print.

Best Mark.

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Enfield, U.K.
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 - posted May 29, 2014 11:51 PM      Profile for Barry Attwood   Email Barry Attwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi,

'Logan's Run' might have been from the German cut of the film, and the nude scenes may have already been edited out, that's all I can think of.

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Rob Young.
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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted May 30, 2014 03:15 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quote;

"So effectively really any new releases of up to date bits will, even if from a 35mm source will be from an original digital source."

Exactly!

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
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 - posted May 30, 2014 04:44 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I suppose " Don`t Knock it Until You`ve Tried it " as Frankie Howard apparently used to say.

I think as I`ve mentioned before HD straight to 8mm possitive stock is probably the best option now.

Is there already a super 8 camera that can film optical sound onto super 8 as it takes the picture.

Or could one be adapted ? There are 400 feet can options already I think.

You can effectively have any film you want then and most serious collectors have a projector with optical onboard.

Best Mark.

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

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From: Sarpsborg, Norway
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 - posted May 30, 2014 05:00 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But you lose the film feel ... I know I will see the jerkyness of the digital picture. It's hurts my head on TV, DVD, Blu-Ray and "cinema"

I would rather have old films re-released from proper 35mm or 16mm. New movies kinda suck anyway

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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 - posted May 31, 2014 12:38 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I must say that we are becoming the "dinosaurs" of this modern age, as the average person wouldn't know a digital projection or film presentation from a hole in the ground ....

"ooooh, pretty colors, pretty colors ..." (cue moronic clapping)

I almost feel like a traitor, in a way, as, when my current project gets "green-lit" (fingers crossed on that, but at least I'm in talks with the actress for the project!) ...

I will go for digital filming which once all edited together, my hope is to have film prints struck, but I fear that, though the actual film grain will help, I may run into what Larry was talking about (was it larry?), where faces ect., just do not look natural.

It's all about costs for me. Unlike the golden years of Hollywood or big budget Hollywood projects of today, unless you have the budget behind you, you just can't afford to waste countless dollars on some actor or actress constantly flubbing they're lines and wasting precious film.

[ June 02, 2014, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Osi Osgood ]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Penistone Sheffield UK
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 - posted May 31, 2014 01:01 PM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Totally agree with Vidar on the digital look. I don't like it.

Just watched a demo of 4k on a curved Samsung. I didn't like it, really clinical look.

I also not too bothered about the more modern films. Most I find boring poor editing too fast cutting and the like. Done to make them look better.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted May 31, 2014 03:39 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no idea why I don't like digital, I just don't. I feel no pleasure at all with this medium. I cannot deny its advantages but it is not for me. Nothing can beat the pleasure of watching a reel film. As long as I will be able to shoot and project films, I will.

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Dominique

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted May 31, 2014 04:21 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The deadness of the picture, the sterile feeling and the awful jerkyness. If you see a panning shot on digital, try to see the straight lines (doorways, poles, fences and so on) ... They have a terrible movement. I also saw this in Odeon in London, where close ups of Harrison Fords face in Enders Game, when he turns, there seem to miss a frame or so, stutters and I hate that

Becoming more and more distant to enjoying videos (I did for a long time, until I saw Super 8 films again) ... Now I am analog and I don't think there's any turning back for me. I actually feel a bit sick when watching videos now, so I'll stick with film

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