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Author Topic: New Super 8 camera from Kodak
Paul Suchy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Westchester, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 09, 2016 06:18 AM      Profile for Paul Suchy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Suchy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very good points, everyone. Let's keep this conversation going because I'm sure Kodak is checking our posts as well as other forums in order to see reactions and opinions regarding their project.

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Paul Suchy

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted January 09, 2016 06:54 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I wouldn't bank on it Paul.

I think the comments regarding these as being, first and foremost, a digital film makers professional play thing to create a certain ambiance of film style, is probably quite correct.

Anyone wishing to use these in the traditional manner they were unintended, will be a minority in this day and age, and catering for their needs, will therefore fall well down the pecking order in order of Kodaks priorities I feel.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Suchy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Westchester, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 09, 2016 08:31 AM      Profile for Paul Suchy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Suchy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand exactly what you mean, Andrew. I only thought Kodak's main objective would be to sell as many units as possible and they would have at least one employee to research public reaction.

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Paul Suchy

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted January 09, 2016 09:05 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Hopefully you're correct Paul. [Wink] Let's hope they do, and better still, let's hope they listen to what would be desired from a new camera and film stock by our people here. Including a magnetic stripe, if that isn't asking too much!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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 - posted January 09, 2016 10:49 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It seems to me that if anyone, amateur or professional, wishes to shoot super 8 there are plenty of superb used cameras available. What we need from Kodak is reversal film stock, not a new camera, although it is nice to see new S8 hardware of any kind coming to market.
Whatever happened to the Logmar camera? They sold 50 cameras and then stopped production. Why? The Logmar camera was the ultimate S8 camera, and in some respects the Kodak camera looks like a poor mans Logmar.

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William Olson
Master Film Handler

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From: Poughkeepsie, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2010


 - posted January 09, 2016 11:46 AM      Profile for William Olson   Email William Olson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Everything old is new again. Assuming all of the aforementioned comes to pass, it seems to me to be a long way 'round to get back to where we were (with some tech improvements). Don't get me wrong. I welcome it. The thing is, the format never should have been practically abandoned in the first place. This being said, I sure hope they introduce a reversal stock akin to Kodachrome (one can dream, can't one?)

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Robert Lewis
Film Handler

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From: United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted January 09, 2016 01:31 PM      Profile for Robert Lewis   Email Robert Lewis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps I am mistaken, but using a negative stock as the starting point seems to me to be unnecessarily complicating what Kodak say they are trying to do. They could do what they say they want to do and please many of their customers who greatly miss a reversal stock by reintroducing Ektachrome 100. This would encourage S8 users who have ceased to use their cameras because they cannot project negative stock and find having a projection print made is very expensive as things stand today. They would also be able to encourage new customers by offering the choice of using negative stock or reversal stock as well as well as satisfying those existing 16mm users who would welcome a return of reversal stock. It would indeed be good if Kodak were reading the messages being posted on this subject, and better still if they allowed themselves to be influenced by them. What happened to the old retail saying "The cutomer is always right"?

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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From: The Projection Box
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 - posted January 10, 2016 06:40 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul. I heard the first 20 $3500 discounted cameras shipped early last year, no idea what happened after that. The gate feed and design looked very good on the camera, if the uploaded results were anything to go by it was a nice unit although probably made to order?

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 10, 2016 06:57 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, the Logmar site says : "Fifty of these cameras were build in conjunction with the fifty year anniversary of Super-8 in one batch in late 2014. Today the Logmar S-8 camera is a sought after collectors item as we no longer manufacture this camera." The reason why the production stopped is not given, nor if the limited number of 50 units was planned from the beginning.

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Dominique

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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 - posted January 10, 2016 07:34 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dom Do we know if anyone is filming with one or are they pretty much a collectors item now?

Would be nice if Kodak made its promotional material for the new product on Super 8mm.

I'm looking forward to hear how they have overcome the onboard mike picking up the mechanical noise from the film transport mechanism. Well all remember Super 8 sound cameras of old..

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted January 10, 2016 07:43 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no idea, Lee. The only thing that seems clear is that all the cameras manufactured were sold. Is the (handicraft like) production too hard to handle for a small company ? Does the lack of colour reversal stock play a role in the end of cameras production ? Is there a lack of demand due to the high price ? The only people who could answer are the people from Logmar.

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Dominique

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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From: The Projection Box
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 - posted January 10, 2016 07:51 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tru Dom and hats off to them for what seemed a good product.
At the end of the day its really good to see someone actually developing a film product today. Perhaps it may even turn up at one of the trade media shows over here, that I would not miss. [Smile]

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 10, 2016 06:09 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lee, from some searches I made on the net, it seems that Logmar helped Kodak in the conception of its camera. That could explain why the company stopped manufacturing the product. I also saw that at least three buyers actually use the camera to shoot :-)

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Dominique

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Paul Suchy
Expert Film Handler

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From: Westchester, IL, USA
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 - posted January 11, 2016 07:15 AM      Profile for Paul Suchy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Suchy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding mag stripe on new film, I seem to remember Kodak claimed some sort of environmental law that prevented them from mag striping new stock (because we all know the oil companies and factory farming are small threats compared to manufacturing a case of mag striped film stock). Does anyone else recall this?

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Paul Suchy

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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 - posted January 11, 2016 07:43 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting that Logmar were involved as well.
Looks like the starting price will be around £250 with a basic lens making it affordable, certainly for a variable speed camera today. The big names are very much behind it so looks like it will actually happen.Worth registering with Kodak for the latest news, all rather exciting really.

Expect we all ponder why a new super 8 camera in 2016? As a keen 8mm film maker even today I can see a market for it especially when the electronic components in our old cameras will be perhaps a little past sell by date. Being a fresh design and complete with electronic side screen it will help creativity and possible users will be calling for reversal film stock once up and running. At present it seems more aimed at Kodaks Vison Neg film shooters but will see...
Top of my spec list would be will it have electronic ASA settings?

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 11, 2016 08:31 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, you're right. The environmental law you mentionned is the reason Kodak gave to stop producing sound cartriges. Kodak say it would cost too much to invest in an alternative in a declining sales market. Kodak also said they were looking for a solution but it never happened. A sound cartrige would be a miracle so I would be glad with colour reversal stock :-)

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted January 11, 2016 05:56 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I will too, but I believe in miracles! [Wink]

While ever China are getting away with building 5 coal fired power stations per week in this day and age, I don't think we or Kodak need worry TOO much about a few miles of ferromagnetic stripe!!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Glenn Brady
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From: North Carolina, USA
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 - posted January 11, 2016 07:20 PM      Profile for Glenn Brady   Author's Homepage   Email Glenn Brady   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[deleted]

[ January 17, 2016, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Brady ]

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Jeff Popper
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 - posted January 12, 2016 04:42 PM      Profile for Jeff Popper   Email Jeff Popper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all, I honestly wonder whether the picture quality achievable on Super 8 is going to be acceptable to people in 2016. My own experience has been that it is pretty hard to get good quality on super 8 and I wonder what sort of quality film media they propose to offer and what method of telecine they would use to meet expectations in 2016 (when people are used to True HD (or better) resolution on their LCD/plasma television.

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John Hourigan
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From: Colorado U.S.A.
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 - posted January 12, 2016 04:53 PM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Totally agree, Jeff -- I know some producers shoot on Super 8 to achieve that high-grain "home movie look" for segments in commercials, music videos, etc., but certainly not as a professional gauge.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted January 12, 2016 05:45 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I think the very best images obtainable from Super 8mm can hold their own against most others outside of Ultra HD, but only up to a certain sized screened image.

People have likened the quality of some Super 8mm prints to those that they would expect to see on screen from a 35mm print, but as said only at modest screen sizes.

You would have to sit a very good distance away from the screen for Super 8mm to look polished on anything over a 15ft wide image I'd say.

Some prints I have look every bit as good as my HD projected DVD (not Blu Ray) ones but then again, this is on only around an 8ft wide image in the home environment.

Super 8mm and it's projectors is perfect, I feel, for what the guage was intended for to begin with, amateur home cinema projection & amateur photography from it's cameras. [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Adrian Winchester
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From: Croydon, London, UK
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 - posted January 12, 2016 06:32 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A few more comments:

As Lee has indicated, the price is surprisingly reasonable - I bet most of us would have guessed it would be higher. And they talk about a lower-priced version in 2016! That probably won't cost vastly more than the last 'mass market' Super 8 cameras of the 1980s.

I don't think the gate is a big problem if you take it into account if shooting for normal projection. But the ideal would be to have a setting that electronically indicates the outline of the 'traditional' aspect ratio for those who want it.

Some have questioned whether there will be much demand but we shouldn't underestimate the impact of the 'message' this sends out, especially if you read the amazing list of positive statements from prominent filmmakers on the Kodak site. This is Kodak 'saying' that Super 8 is NOT a virtually obsolete format reliant on old equipment; it's something with current relevance.

I agree that a reversal stock would be highly desirable, but even if one isn't planned yet, surely they will be more inclined to produce one if this camera boosts sales. And why shouldn't Ferrania see this camera as an incentive to get a reversal stock onto the market?

[ January 12, 2016, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 12, 2016 06:43 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed Adrian, with this type of investment shown by Kodak and Ferrania, there appears to be very exciting times ahead in the not so distant future regarding Super 8mm film and it's associated equipment! [Razz]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 13, 2016 06:30 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jeff, I think that one of the Kodak targets are the students in cinema. Obviousely, Kodak understood that one of the interests of super 8 is the physical contact you can have with filmstock. Quality is important but is not all.

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Dominique

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted January 14, 2016 06:56 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good points Adrian.

The last couple of years here have very much been about re filming projects I did as a kid, sort of a filmic walk down memory lane so thinking about the age of my own favourite camera to have the opportunity now of buying a brand new model is quite something in a lifetime for me at least. The price of the camera is a keen one and will also appeal to those in media seeking 'that look', gorilla film makers and students alike I'm sure. Kodak seem committed having seen the 50 year anniversary of super 8 last year and the great man do say ..

Kodak Chief Executive Officer. “Following the 50th anniversary of Super 8, Kodak is providing new opportunities to enjoy and appreciate film as a medium.”
[Smile]

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