8mm Forum: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer

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Topic: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer

Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

posted September 22, 2019 03:30 AM

I have just purchased one of those USB mini right angled adaptor things from ebay.

Even if I don't mount the fan, it will save me soldering anything for my extension USB affair from the camera board.

Cheaper than amazong as it happens....

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 22, 2019 07:02 AM

Hi everyone. I'm also new to this forum and really impressed what you guys have achieved with improving the Wolverine MovieMaker!

I've been in the process of trying to set up a system using Joe Herman's RPI film capture software, which can be found on GitHub here: https://github.com/jphfilm/rpi-film-capture. He has some very impressive results using the V1 5MP RPI camera as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQi6WqZvf4OT9eOhWeVfKMg and here: https://vimeo.com/jphfilm

Is the DFM 72BUC02-ML camera you recommend better than than the RPI camera or more for ease of use? It does seem like quite an expensive camera considering you can buy a RPI with a camera/lens for less. Also would there be any benefits using the USB 3.0/3.1 Imaging Source cameras?

That being said I have also bought a faulty Wolverine MovieMaker Pro that I would like to get working and this mod definitely seems like the best way forward.

How do I go about ordering a PCB please? I'm also fine with soldering components myself.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

posted September 22, 2019 08:45 AM

Mike, make sure the orientation of the connector is correct.
Hi Terry, can you please add your name to the list stating what unit you bought and any side notes.
The board can be ordered directly from the supplier in China:
https://jlcpcb.com/
Download the V7 gerber:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jwJfCwCj-idQViChmxXBzmawzOPdU6Qh
Click on "Quote now" and point to the downloaded gerber and then provide the purchase details and order.

Check the previous posts on this forum regarding RPI. I could get pretty decent video with the RPI camera but the main problem is shading i.e. pink tinge that gets worse around the frame edges. I know what the cause is and I did the sw compensation for it and it improved but it is still somewhat there and I did not like that. The other issue is the cheap lens on these cameras...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlL9KOLzxrQ

In this video you can see the difference... look for pink tinge.

So, if we could get decent image quality from RPI I could redesign the board for RPI mount pretty fast.

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 22, 2019 10:11 AM

Thanks for the links Stan, really appreciate it. I have added my name to list.

I'm actually red/green colorblind so that doesn't help! I don't seem to see the pink but obviously will be an issue for others watching..

Looks like Dominique Galland has had some success using non-stock RPI lenses here (either M12 or CS mount):

https://github.com/dgalland/yart/blob/master/yart.md (need to translate to English)

and calibrating the lens with this library:

https://github.com/rwb27/openflexure_microscope_software

I've not really looked into this much myself as still quite a way before I can get this all working correctly.

I think I will buy the DFM 72BUC02-ML camera in the meantime.

Kamel, I'm also interested in getting some of the SMPTE RP-32 pattern test film - if you have any spare is it possible to buy a small piece from you please? It's a shame it's so expensive and you cannot buy shorter lengths.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

posted September 22, 2019 11:30 AM

Stan
This is what I have ordered.
Feel free to tell me it's no good before I blow myself up!
[Roll Eyes]

usb lead at flea bay

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

posted September 22, 2019 11:42 AM

Will get back to you Terry a bit later since we have an emergency here... Mike's well being is in question... Mike it is PERFECT.

Terry, the pink glow is not very prominent. I am not sure which board Joe Herman used, but did a pretty good job calibrating the camera.

Here is where I see pink glow.. in this scene and many others:

Getting the imagingsource camera is a smart decision in my opinion. I mean if you are looking for something that is better than Wolverine, then might as well spend some more money to make a significant difference.

But for people that want to save and are looking for cheaper alternative, RPI is possible.
I did similar setup to what Dominique Galland did. But in my case I had the V2 camera and could not get rid of the pink glow completely even after calibration... check my earlier posts.
So possibly going with the V1 version and imagingsource 12M lens may be a good alternative.
I also used a shield, and that one gave me good results but it is almost the same cost and imagingsource... so it is a mute point.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

posted September 22, 2019 12:44 PM

Panic over, my well being has, yet again been rescued.....

Roll on Monday morning when the post room opens and I can go sign for my image source camera and lens.

It's like christmas eve..... [Razz]

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 22, 2019 01:20 PM

quote:
Terry, the pink glow is not very prominent. I am not sure which board Joe Herman used, but did a pretty good job calibrating the camera.

Still can't see it must be my colorblindness! I believe Joe Herman used the stock RPI lens screwed out as far as possible with an additional 25mm focal length triplet lens to magnify the size.

Mike, where did you end up buying your camera and lens from? I did try open an account with the reseller Scorpion Vision to get prices, but looks like they will only sell to businesses. I've also asked Imaging Source for a quote so waiting to hear back.

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Ray Fox
Junior
Posts: 4
From: Southwick, Wiltshire, UK
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 22, 2019 02:46 PM

Hi. Another new member query I am afraid.
I am now on my second 3rd Generation Winait Film Scanner.
The 1st was returned as the film gate kept jamming.
This second one is out of focus. I am trying to avoid sending this one back as well so I have disassembled to adjust the focus. However they seen to have locked the lens with a pretty hard locking material. I have tried to soften it with IPA, Surgical Spirit, Brush cleaner and some wonderful all purpose cleaning fluid. Nothing seems to touch it. I don't want to use too much force as it is brand new. Does anyone have any suggestions for a solvent/softener. They have appeared to have used the same stuff to the lock connectors in position.

By the way I am very impressed with all the work going on in this thread and others on this board. If this Winait doesn't work out I am considering making my own Telecine device with an old Eumig 610d projector I have spare.

--------------------
Ray

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

posted September 22, 2019 04:05 PM

Terry, you can order from oemcameras.com.
Here is a copy of my recent order:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZYQBwZMXrNvaAfvD8
Mike may have another source.

Thanks for the additional info on the setup.

Mike, glad you are still alive and well [Smile]

Ray, try vise-grip locking pliers but do not squeeze it very hard. That is what I ended up doing a while back with the Wolverine lens.

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 22, 2019 05:54 PM

Thanks for sharing copy of your order Stan. I have worked out it will be around $300 with import duties and international shipping to UK. Hoping it will be a bit cheaper to buy here in the UK or Europe.

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 22, 2019 05:55 PM

Please delete - duplicate post

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

posted September 22, 2019 07:28 PM

Mike has a local supplier. It is much cheaper than that.

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 23, 2019 06:48 AM

Hi Kamel, do you have a link for the super 8 sprocket you designed on Thingiverse please? I have tried designing a sprocket before but the teeth never printed well. I have the Monoprice mini V2, do you think it's good enough for printing this?

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

posted September 23, 2019 07:59 AM

It would seem Christmas did indeed arrive early

Stan I am most grateful, arrived this morning.
Can't thank you enough Sir.

Not only that, my camera and lens from imaging source arrived.

Welcome Terry Dowling I bought my camera via the imaging source website, I asked for a quote and that in turn led to a couple of uk options.

No account needed, paid Scorpion Vision with a debit card on the phone when the time came.

The quote was just for the camera, once in touch with Robyn at Scorpion I asked for the lens in the quote, she was most helpful getting it sorted.
That said, thier first quote did included a £30 usb lead which I politely declined!

Imaging source

The cost was not too outrageous, £165 total incl p+p

The lens mount would be an additional cost, I think £60 but I can't remember, seems somewhat expensive...

I chose not to buy thier lens mount as I have a bespoke 3D printed lens mount from my amazing new best friend Kamel for which I am very very grateful.

RAY I tried to loosen my lens to see if I could get a tighter focus, but like you I found it tighter than a nun's handbag, so left it well alone as I thought I would end up ripping the lens off ........

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

posted September 23, 2019 08:25 AM

Welcome Terry,
For Printed 3d files. I did not put everything on thingiverse, because I was waiting for the Stan's capstan validation tests but
He has not received the 3D parts yet.

I did not want to make models available until it was really finalized. But if you want them before to test, I can provide them for free without problem. Give me your mail by private message, I send to you the STL files.

For the SMPTE clip, It's not a question of money but unfortunately I do not have much for my personal needs. I will see if I can still a small part of 8-10cm but I'm not sure. I'll find if I'm left somewhere...

your printer has been designed for the PLA (You can use PETG), you have to test ...
For 3D printing, I used ABS or PETG filament : infill 100%, layer 0.1, bed 90 °, temp nozzle 230 °. it should work well !... [Smile]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

posted September 23, 2019 08:50 AM

Glad you got the parts Mike. The new boards will be in on Wed. Also received a bunch of parts from Digikey including the new usb connectors. So, everything is coming together slowly.

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 23, 2019 09:28 AM

Mike, thanks for that. Just waiting to hear back on a quote. They will not sell unless you have a business.

Kamel, thank you and yes I fully understand. I'm happy to wait till it's all finalised.

I wonder if anyone else is interested in SMPTE test film? Perhaps we could buy roll and split it up. It's €178.50 for 5m excl. shipping. It looks like it's very useful to get everything setup up correctly and would only need a small piece.

I will play around with the settings on the 3D printer. I know others have successfully used ABS on this printer as well. I do have some PETG so will also try with this.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

posted September 23, 2019 10:23 AM

Terry In the quote at imaging source all I did was explain what I was going to do with the camera in terms of film preservation and modifying a cheap rubbish film scanner etc etc.

Next thing an email from scorpion vision with a quote.

No business mentioned. Good luck.

Stan Thanks for the update. As usual, no hurry.

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Doug Maxwell
Junior
Posts: 12
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 23, 2019 10:56 AM

Hello again. Stan, I have a few boxes of family films that range from the 1930s to the 1990s. I'm sure I'll have some challenging sprocket scenarios, so the capstan motor is certainly an option worth getting.

I've built many things - computers, discus launch gliders, a digital pinball cabinet, and rewired a few old cars. I'm good at putting things together but soldering a board is well beyond my skill range. Stan, can I buy the ready to go board from you? Also, how do I get on the 'official list'? I'm fine with waiting - just want to get a slot.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

posted September 23, 2019 11:36 AM

Hi Doug,
Just add you name onto this list
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11ulozLsHAFLXWV3mcBSc-CuQRRfOLX6nDC3h63EVo9Q/edit?usp=sharing

and state what machine you have or no machine, qty etc, and in the notes any specific requirements.
Currently I have 6 boards to do. I can certainly do one for you but since this is manual assembly it could take 2 - 3 weeks.

The capstan is still work in progress and it is not included in the kit until properly tested. We can play it by ear and see how it goes.

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Doug Maxwell
Junior
Posts: 12
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2019

posted September 23, 2019 06:32 PM

Excellent. Thank you. Works of art take time, so I'm not in a hurry.

Will the board have to be altered or replaced when a capstan motor is added? Or does it know to compensate for the speed change?

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

posted September 23, 2019 08:31 PM

Well thanks Doug. Works of art eh! Awesome.
The board is capstan ready. So it is expecting the pulses and it is trying to kick the motor. But if the motor is not connected the film stays stuck.

Here is a reply to Kevin's earlier post. He wrote:
---
On the pulleys, what the machine has stock aren't pulleys, since they don't turn. In fact 2 of them are rubberized or something, I think they are there to keep the take up reel from pulling the film through the gate too fast, and at the same time allow proper tension on the film rolling onto the reel. Without them the film jumps, with lower speed on the take up, the film doesn't roll up on the reel tightly enough and can just overflow/fall off. This may not be a concern though if the mod is better controlling the take up motor.
---
I tested the takeup without pulley tension:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ug7LiWpNTVF8STtJ9

Here is the result:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KED7W1Ctv4oAbRvu5

And here is with the pulleys engaged:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3yDdeo3vgo4Xswih9

I do not see much difference.. but you be the judge.

[ September 23, 2019, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Stan Jelavic ]

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

posted September 24, 2019 11:16 AM

Stan I do like the two scan samples in the post above, which bought a question to mind.

What software are you using to compile your image sequence?

Curiosity more than anything else.

I will be using VirtualDub, for which I have great affection.

In other news, the mini usb extension arrived today.....

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

posted September 24, 2019 04:14 PM

Here is the shoebox version for takeup:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TzkRg4iepxuzQPZE9

About the same amount of frame jitter. So I believe the new controller is as good as it gets. The small amount of jitter is caused by the Wolverine claw. Or is it the film itself?

Just a sidenote, the clips not of best quality because I concentrated on jitter, not quality.

I use Film9 Mike as Kamel suggested a while back.

[ September 24, 2019, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Stan Jelavic ]

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