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Author Topic: So I just filed a claim with Deutsche Post for damaged item?
Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2017 09:00 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone had to file a claim for an item that was received damaged from Deutsche Post? My Super 8 projector arrived damaged and the shipper blames the shipping company and tells me to take it up with "them".
I filed a damaged item report with Deutsche Post but was wondering what are the chances I will be getting reimbursed for the damage.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted September 21, 2017 11:22 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We'll see, fingers crossed for you! [Smile]

Best way to get good results, don't take "no" for an answer ... keep on pressuring them, write to the highest level if you have to but keep all info on hand, tracking number ect ect.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 21, 2017 12:31 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
It's absolutely infuriating Alan that in this moranic 21st C world we have all inherited, it is completely incapable of understanding the notion that valuable rare and now almost irreplacable goods might just need more than a single layer of bubblewrap thrown into the bottom of a cardboard box to see them safe in transit!

Also what is equally baffling to someone like myself is why on earth it is impossible to find any global courier that understands how to handle the cargo it is trusted with any form of respect and care.
[Mad] [Mad]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2017 12:44 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I loved that projector. It was one of my favorite ones and now its a giant paperweight. It was in mint condition. When it arrived I was happy until I saw the substandard packing job. And then found the 50lb projector had worked its way down to the bottom of the box crushing the green biodegradable packing peanuts. Everyone who knows anything about packing something so rare and valuable knows that there has to be a barrier on the bottom, the top, the sides, so the item is like an egg. Completely protected in the case that the box IS dropped. But no.. the reply I received was:
"We are extremely sorry that there were such difficulties in the delivery. We usually pack with "Flo-Pak Green" which are recyclable, dust-free and antistatic. These build up biologically. Styrofoam is no longer used. The disadvantage of the "Flo-Pak Green" is that these can be easily pressed under pressure. There are no problems with shipping within the EU.
We have almost no experience with transport to the EU abroad. Since this is a transport damage, this is of course to be complained. We are sure that we have packed the unit properly."
What? ugh. This experience makes me want to quit this hobby and just get a digital projector!
[Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 21, 2017 01:29 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Don't do that Alan.

Just don't send to Europe anything like this ever again!

The halfwits running these courier companies cannot be trusted, ever!!

Not helped of course by shoddy packaging in the first instance.
Neither is without blame in this case.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted September 21, 2017 01:40 PM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some people have no clue how to ship and blame shipping companies. Others know how and until you see the packaging you can never tell...

When i bought my elmo st1200, it was wonderfully protected, oh yes, the seller decided to put thousands of packing styrophome peanuts in with it...took me a week to finally clean every static laden piece out of every nook and cranny..... but in the end...the bulb still worked [Smile]

How annoying this must all be Alan!

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--
Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 21, 2017 01:50 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know about the German post but when you start a claim to the Belgian post, you receive one month later a message asking you to provide the packing ! And they insist on the fact that it's "very important". Probably a way to find a way to never take any responsability. If it was so crucial, they would mention it on the claim form. It's obvious that most of the people will not keep a packing during one month..

--------------------
Dominique

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2017 02:03 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I sent a Kodak slide projector off to get one of those wonderful bits of brittle Kodak Plastic replaced so the slide advance will work again.

I spent a couple of weeks watching the packing materials headed for the garbage at work. I got the right sized box, and then started collecting pieces of molded Styrofoam and built this elaborate structure to enclose the projector with about 3 inches of foam on all sides. (It's beautiful! -Almost a shame to send it away!)

-here's hoping they don't send it back in foam peanuts!

I got a "mint" movie projector like this once and UPS converted it from a runner into a parts machine!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2017 06:22 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The sad thing is that the box I shipped it in had numerous pieces of foam and cardboard, and packing materials, and it was isolated inside the box floating like a giant egg. Even if it was dropped it would have landed on 4 inches of foam on each side and top and bottom.
Why they didn't just re-use the same custom box I have no idea. I have a friend who speaks fluent German and he will call them tomorrow and see what they propose to do or if they will shirk all responsibility.

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted September 21, 2017 06:37 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sadly they must have considered your packing materials not good for the environment and used their environmentally safe packing materials that crush under pressure, or so they claim. That doesn't sound like they packed it properly (another one of their claims) That sucks.

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Jason Smith
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: Tohoku, Japan
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted September 21, 2017 06:52 PM      Profile for Jason Smith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan, I would love to see a picture of the packing job.

I have checked projectors at the airport before for international flights and never had a problem with a broken projector. I'm a proponent of the double box method.

It takes a lot of time but at the very least they should
1. Bubble wrap the projector
2. Make a custom made box to fit it like a glove
3. Surround that box with more bubblewrap
4. Last, they should make another custom made box to cover the projector.

If I were shipping a projector internationally, I would look at using double ply cardboard for shipping a projector. I'm going to assume that was something they did not use.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2017 08:23 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I received the projector it was in an oversized box. There were no rips or tears to the box but it was not structurally sound looking. It looked and felt a little soft like a bean bag. I opened it up and first thing i saw was it was filled to the top with these little green packing pieces called Flo Pack. They look like Harvest Snapea crisps!
I put my hand down, down, and down and then I felt the projector. It was on the bottom of the box. I wasn't worried yet because I thought maybe they placed some foam or styrofoam or SOMETHING on the bottom. But when I pulled up on the projector using the handle I saw that it was wrapped i would say 2x around the machine, with the small bubble wrap. Not the one with the big bubbles. But i doubt that would have helped.
So thats all they did. One soft box that did not retain its shape, filled with Flo Pack and then bubble wrapped 2 times around the machine. And then placed in the box. I took the projector home, unwrapped the bubblewrap and then saw the damage to the bottom casing first. I thought well..maybe its just cosmetic. So I opened up the casing on the bottom and a transformer "fell" out. It was unattached so I couldn't tell if it was a part that was replaced and then left there.
And then I saw all the rest of the damage. Broken rear arm, dented fan on the Lamp Housing door, loose hour metric counter for the bulb. Nervously I turned it on and of course..lamp doesn't work. Fans on the projector and the base..not working.
And its such an expensive and rare machine.
When I sent it it was bubble wrapped, placed in one box, then bubble wrapped again, placed in another box with foam and styrofoam. It was perfectly packed for its voyage.
Its so disappointing. I really am hoping that I can get it back to its somewhat original state. I haven't even been able to see if the sound works or anything else. It threads properly that is good but without being able to see an image who knows what else happened to it?

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Jason Smith
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: Tohoku, Japan
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted September 21, 2017 08:52 PM      Profile for Jason Smith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan, it was definitely a substandard packing job.

1.No big bubble wraps used.
I don't like packing peanuts and I'm not going to say that they should not have been used but I don't think they were a replacement for an inner box. A custom inner box should have been made for the projector and then peanuts should have been used in the box. I prefer big bubble wrap.

2.Flimsy box on the outside.
Double wall cardboard should have been used for the outside box...especially for an international shipment. Especially if they were not going to double box it.

I have only been in this hobby for two years and it seems like I have a better idea of how to ship a projector than whoever packaged yours.

This Youtube video taught me how to package a projector using the double box method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoIOe_gztYM

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Michael Lattavo
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 160
From: Canton, OH, USA
Registered: May 2014


 - posted September 22, 2017 04:21 AM      Profile for Michael Lattavo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the video Jason! I need to ship a proector out for repair, and was worried about how best to do it!

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted September 22, 2017 08:41 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
An interesting video.
But I would have preferred to have seen much more packing between the outer box and its internal package.

--------------------
Maurice

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted September 22, 2017 11:20 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Folk,

Here is a link (In French , sorry. Copy/Paste into Reverso transducer could be helpfull) which give you an idea to prepare a proper packaging :

INTERNATIONAL PACKAGING NORMS

Chapter H : Test for sending a BEAULIEU around 20Kg is a fall of 60 cm High
(Fall test comply with ISO 2248 & ISO 2206 rules).

Alan, just an idea as an other :
If you paied the service with a Credit Card as Visa Card ( or any other) , may this card includes a customer protection for this particular case ????

CUSTOMED SAFETY CASES / FLIGHT CASES :

May be Dominique or anybody from Belgium will confirm something :

There are some compagnies in Belgium specialized in manufacturing STRONG SAFETY CASES / FLIGHT CASES for sensitive items shipment to any sizes and at a very competitive price
Is it correct ?

Anyway, I assume a good way to do (for heavy items shipping) is to compose package with a mix from flexible foam and crushable "honey comb style" hard paper as a final coat....

[ September 22, 2017, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted September 22, 2017 12:19 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always get a sour stomach when I see how "postal Gorillas" handle packages, and don't get me started on airline workers and how they handle packages!!! (Yikes!) [Eek!]

Best wishes and best of luck on a good resolution on this issue, I certainly hope that you still have some of that packing!!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 22, 2017 12:44 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While he was in college, my friend did an internship at United Parcel Service. This was management training, but they made the interns go through combat training down in the trenches, whether it was driving trucks at 6:30AM five towns away or dealing with customers at the front desk: it's how they weeded out the faint of heart.

A couple of times they made him load trucks headed out for local delivery. Step one was to build a wall of boxes out on the loading dock prior to sorting them onto the shelves in the van.

More than once his supervisor didn't like how he built up the wall and he kicked it over. He didn't care if Aunt Mabel's tea set or a set of steel brake discs were in the boxes, over they went!

When I was getting ready to ship the slide projector off for repair, I was thinking about this and asked the repair place which shipper I should use. They told me it's pretty much the same thing, it's the packaging that has to make the difference.

All the shippers really guarantee is delivery: the rest is up to whoever packs the items up to travel. That's the reason UPS will not accept packages with string tied around them: they can't promise their workers won't pick them up and fling them.

I guess that's the difference between a shipper and a courier!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 22, 2017 12:45 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wish but the company does not take credit card so everything was through bank transfer. I do not have any of the packing as it always took 3-4 days between emails to the repair center. I assumed they would take full responsibility for the inadequate packing job and I wouldn't be in this position. Never again will I use bank transfer unless I have done business before with them.

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted September 22, 2017 01:06 PM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
May be you have a general insurance to protect consumers against unsatisfactory services (Garages, plumbers, etc.....)
This can be included in a "insuring package" when you insured your home, for exemple

This is quite common from my side, assume this is same thing from your side (This something call like court protection I think) ?

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 22, 2017 01:34 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well if the business was located in the USA I could take him to small claims court. But I have no idea what kind of protection I would have from the USA to Germany.
Anyone know?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted September 23, 2017 02:12 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan
There is a small claims court system in Germany. Germany is in the EU therefore the system is available for claimants from any other EU country.
Unfortunately, the USA is not a member of the EU!

--------------------
Maurice

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted September 25, 2017 07:45 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Any reason for not saying what projector is was? Was it a Beaulieu, Alan? Hope not. What a horror story. I too am in favour of metal flight cases. They can be made to order. Also insist on double-boxing when buying a machine.

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 25, 2017 07:49 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
It is for Alan to say Steven but all i will say is for any true Super 8mm lover, it is our worst nightmare and I truly feel for Alan despite his very best efforts here regarding this one.

If Public hangings one day, once again become prevalent, then these couriers of Alan's are having it first!

He did his bit, everyone else let him down badly!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted September 27, 2017 01:41 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Andrew,

Hope sincerely Alan get satisfaction at the end.

It's a shame how this repair station in Germany neglected Alan's Machine , this compagny is simply totaly unprofessional, it have no idea of it does !!

They do not deserve to have a job.
Alan's is right to be fully upset.
From my side , this compagny is just Black-listed now!!
However , same thing to observe from my side of course, it is very, very difficult to find a "trustworthy" repair station too at this time.

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