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Author Topic: Various projector models
Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 28, 2018 06:51 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is a topic i started elsewhere and i domt normaly do cross threading between forums.this will be a one off but i wanted to put this up here if you all dont mind as i would like to get your views and write ups if you would like to join in.

We very often read about various things about our machines with the popular ones being the Eumigs, Elmo's Bauers and a couple of others. I have been looking in some old mags and on-line and have seen some really nice looking machines. If i throw some makes and models on here can anyone enlighten us as to how good these are, how they perform, how noisy / quite they are? Are they know for scratching etc.
It would be good to get an insight into some of these.

The Tacnon range, such as the Tacnon 808 super 8 stereo
SANKYO 700/800
Yelco Stereo 3600 Computer Quartz
The Yelco Range in general,
Chinon Sound 9500 MV Twin Track Magnetic & Optical and other Chinons,
The B & H Range, (one i could never buy again after a brand new one put a green scratch on new film), 16mms fine but for me, not 8mm. Am i wrong? Should i let this one experience put me off?
The Canon range
Minolta Range, like the Minolta 6000
The Sankyo range.
The Optomax range, like the SD-800
The Duo range
The Norris Range
The Heurtier range such as the Stereovox Which Ian recently sold brand spanking new.
The beaulie range
Fumeo
Fujica
we all seem to talk a lot about our Elmos, Eumigs and Bauer so for those of you with lots of projector collecting experience please enlighten me.
if i can get enough info i will put an article together for the magazine. (I know not everyone reads it or subscribes to it),
What are the pro's and cons of some of the above makes? There must be a lot around still and i would assume many on the forums must use them.
I have to say, some of them look pretty darn good.
Are there any decent ones i have left out?
Are there any technical tips that are easy for any of these?

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted June 28, 2018 09:12 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can only say that the Sankyos seem to be good workhorses I haven't had any trouble with the 301 I bought at a BFCC at the Red Lion Square venue. How many years ago was that? It also has a very powerful rewind. (I did buy a working spare with no rear arm from Derann at Ealing for £5 for spares though).

I can only comment on the 410/412 models from Noris they are very quiet (especially at 18 fps) but the autothread can be troublesome as it ages.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 28, 2018 12:41 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My son has a Yelco silent machine.

This one is just a little bit (ahemmm!) notorious. An old co-worker of mine previously ran an adult bookstore on Trinidad and had a couple of these to entertain the...cinema fans! (-some folks just love "film"!)

When he found out I was into film he picked the best of the lot out of storage and gave it to me. A few years later I brought it back to life for my son. (My wife wanted to dip it in bleach! [Wink] )

It is too simple to be unreliable, but it's just not well thought out. It runs well, but very simple routine tasks are difficult because of the way it's built. Access to the gate is poor so it's difficult to clean it.
.
-bar none, it is the worst belt change I have ever seen (-and I've changed belts on cars, projectors, pants and major appliances!). The entire main shaft has to be removed to snake a new motor belt in place. There were screws that had to be removed and replaced in the bottom of deep valleys between chassis mounted stuff: I used a magnetized screwdriver, said a little prayer, held my breath and probably cursed under my breath too! ("Steven! Go help Daddy with your projector!")

I'm reasonable mechanically competent, but asked for and received a set of belt change instructions here before I would even try!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted June 28, 2018 01:32 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a Sankyo 2000H and I would highly recommend it. Dual gauge and rheostat controlled variable speed. Great for DIY digital conversion also.
Bolex also made some nice projectors.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 28, 2018 01:52 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini   Email Chip Gelmini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My first sound machines were Bell & Howell model 1733BZ. They were made well, and back then they were brand new.

PRO'S:
a. Easy to autoload
b. very quiet running the film prints
c. not too heavy easy to transport
d. Playback only no recording to keep costs down getting started
I just wanted to play movies not make them so this was good
for me
e. Found these and bought them at a K-Mart store. Ahh the good
old days when life was simple.
I swear the clerk just stared at me when I asked "are they
cheaper on the internet?" (just kidding)

CONS:
a. DJL 15 hour bulb was $35.00 most places!
b. No aux out to connect to stereo amp
c. No electrical grounding. Standard 2 prong power cord.
d. Bulb image not too bright even at 25 foot throws.

I later upgraded to the ST 800 machines they were junk thanks to 47th St Photo.

As soon as the ST 1200 D units arrived I was a happy camper and finally thought I was getting somewhere with the hobby.

Then came the ST1200 HD units with optical. And finally the GS 1200 machines.

WOW. all in just 40 years.............

 -

CG

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 28, 2018 04:48 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for your replies so far, four, well maybe other than you guys everyone else must have elmo eumig or bauer????
does anyone have a Tacnon 808 super 8 stereo, minolta,canon or any other?
Love that image chip. Its quite remarkable when you think how many of these machines are still rolling after all these years. [Wink]

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 28, 2018 04:58 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini   Email Chip Gelmini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It came off EBay I do have mine but the amplifier is shot to hell. And besides it’s a mono machine even if the sound was good.

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted June 28, 2018 05:13 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can endorse Barry's comment about the Sankyo 2000H, a silent projector. The film is fed to the claw using a rubber roller rather than a sprocket wheel so it's kinder to film. It uses a cheap 100w halogen bulb and is easy to maintain. Although the projector is almost 50 years old, it doesn't look dated unlike some other makes. Getting on for half a million Bolex projectors were actually made by Eumig.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 12, 2018 05:58 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone else on here with any views or small reviews on any of the projectors in my original list? there must be more than this i would have thought. There must be many users out there who has,or had, some of the examples in my opening list? [Confused]

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Thomas Edwards
Film Handler

Posts: 75
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2017


 - posted July 12, 2018 06:11 PM      Profile for Thomas Edwards   Email Thomas Edwards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a Sankyo 702 that takes an 800ft spool on the front arm but only takes a 600 ft spool on the rear ARM.BUT.I managed to get a rear guide of a Sankyo 800 and fitted it to my Sankyo 702 now I have a twin track machine that takes 800ft front and rear.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted July 12, 2018 07:47 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A very interesting thread, but I can only identify myself as one of the people who have never owned any of the projectors listed.

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted July 13, 2018 12:40 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tom,

This is a very interesting thread you put there....

That could be achieved as a condensed chart showing main criterias, each one in a column associated.
Each criteria could be rated from 1 to 10 (10 for the best appreciation).
Anyway, I 'll put here , soon, a "vintage" commercial chart to download in PDF file which offers a comparison between different main projectors brands, showing there performances and optional features.

[ July 13, 2018, 02:24 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted July 13, 2018 05:42 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Having owned/Owning a Fumeo 9120, a Beaulieu 708 EL STEREO, a Noris 342 and a Sankyo Stereo 800 (plus a Sankyo 702's clone, the B&H DCT), here are my observations:

FUMEO
liked: picture steadiness, quietness, spool capacity, lens, reliability, resilience (of the soundhead, too)

didn't like: sound assembly (a nightmare to fix with stereo heads, and poorly conceived/engineered pressure system), spools spindle's clutches not very effective (needing constant re-adjusting thruought a full-length presentation); some competitors with smaller lamp wattage tend to be at least as bright...

BONUS: manual threading (a dream when you need to unload before screening is over)

BEAULIEU
like: spool arm capacity, picture steadiness/brightness, quietness, sound quality, monitor sound head, rear image pressure system, nice gauge-vumeters (active in P/B too!)

don't like: framing knob moves picture aperture up and down (it does not work on the claw's relative position), overall "cheap" appearance of some details, a feeling that it might not withstand prolonged/repeated screenings of F/L features, lack of a proper headphones' jack, sound console not very straightforward in usage; a little hard to unload in mid projection

BONUS: very high sound quality (albeit with somewhat "tender" Woelke heads - same as Bauer's)

NORIS:
like: quietness, steadiness, excellent brightness (even considering it's got ony a 100W lamp, this is one of the brightest projectors ever, due to very narrow shutter blades), image crispness, rear-sprung film gate, sound quality, completeness of stereo/twin track capabilities, push-button inching sound system, pre-roll flywheel system (resulting in no wow&flutter of sound even at start of projection)

don't like: weird (but strangely reliable) auto-thread system, almost impossible to unload in middle of film, the worst-looking projector ever, sound controls all but user-friendly (in fact Noris supplied an extra stencil-kit to superimpose onto the sound section, which tells you which buttons to push and in what order for the specific function you want to use... Bear in mind: the kit comprises 17 of these stencils), sound heads (Recovac) hard to come by

SANKYO's

like: sturdy and reliable (best auto-thread system IMHO), very good picture steadiness, good brightness, picture is from very crisp with supplied lens, to almost excellent with the Sankyo HI-Pro Zoom, very hard-wear heads (almost on par with Elmo's), very good sound quality, reasonable spool capacity in this league of 800', rather easy to unload at mid-show, easily serviceable (especially the claw arm: just three coiled springs to keep it in its position)

don't like: single-tooth claw, noisy; on a few units where the claw movement is not 100% fine-tuned sound quirks may develop on mid-hi frequencies in certain cases (with vibrant/warbled female voices), motor control board's capacitors and a few microswitch of the main rotary control knob may give problems and the machine could come to a stop during projection (albeit for a few instants, but could be a disaster for the frame in the gate!)

All in all they both are workhorses, with very good performances if used regularly with said problems sorted (which develop ONLY with lack of usage!)

I hope this helps....

[ July 13, 2018, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Maurizio Di Cintio ]

--------------------
Maurizio

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 13, 2018 05:44 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would advise to avoid the Duo range. Cheap, plasticy and not kind to film. I also avoid Chinons, but that might just be me.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 13, 2018 11:46 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Terry, yes i remember a friend of mine having one of these many many years ago. I think he had a new line on his films every time he viewed a copy.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 13, 2018 11:47 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Terry, yes i remember a friend of mine having one of these many many years ago. I think he had a new line on his films every time he viewed a copy.

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted July 13, 2018 12:40 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I seem to remember reading that some Chinons had problems due to warped gates(?).

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 13, 2018 01:46 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Did anyone make the error of owning a royal? [Wink]

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted July 13, 2018 04:28 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've seen some on eBay. No thank you!

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted July 13, 2018 05:49 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[Confused]

--------------------
Maurizio

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted July 14, 2018 12:14 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello,

COMMERCIAL COMPARATIVE CHART For Super 8 Projectors (French but easy to understand) :

DOCUMENT TO DOWNLOAD

Available 15 days from today

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted July 14, 2018 06:19 AM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm just loving any debate about projectors.
I'm mainly digi projecting due to reasons of economy these days, but still have my films and eumig 810D and B&H TQ111, though I still unnecessarily hanker for an Elf.
It's in the DNA I guess!

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 14, 2018 10:12 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My first sound projector was a Bell & Howell 489z. It's a nice little workhorse with a 50w lamp, 1.6 17-30mm lens and a 600 ft capacity. Purchased in 1975, it still works nicely!

I also have a Heurtier Stereo 42. It is a gorgeous looking sound projector that has no built in speaker. It has a 15-30mm 1.3 zoom lens and a 100w lamp. I only use it to teach bad prints a lesson, since it has perfected the art of multiple scratches.

Phil, thank you for the chart.

Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 14, 2018 12:06 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At the height of Super 8 many companies jumped on the hay-ride, and in doing so, produced utter crap.
Many of these are still around on eBay and I am sure many unwary buyers have bought one and then discovered their folly.
Even some of our beloved makes and models of Super 8 now suffer from the unavailability of spare parts.

--------------------
Maurice

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted July 14, 2018 02:00 PM      Profile for Ken Finch   Email Ken Finch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did not get involved with Super 8 or standard 8 until about 15 years ago. The ones I use,Eumig 810D, Bolex SP8E and Baur 610,I have found to be very reliable, and other makes, manufactured in Europ or U.S.A.or by companies who have specialised in projector manufacturing seem to have a good reputation. The perfect projector has never existed but the more complicated they are the more there is to go wrong or need replacing. Also, the more parts coming into contact with the film, the more there is potential for film damage. This is one of the reasons I have never liked auto threading. Unfortunately I have never come across a Super 8 sound projector that has manual threading. Ken Finch.

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