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Author Topic: Eiki SSL-O Cinemascope problem(s)
Andy Davis
Film Handler

Posts: 9
From: Portland, OR USA
Registered: Apr 2010


 - posted April 29, 2010 03:14 AM      Profile for Andy Davis   Email Andy Davis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To introduce myself (skip to the next graf for the actual problem, but this whole thing is gonna be long, sorry), and give you an idea what kind of amateur you are trying to help, I am but a mere hobbyist, with assorted classroom films and some near dozen features stored in my closet. I consider it a) an obligation to show the features I collect to people, since by being in my hands they are out of circulation and will only be enjoyed by the people I wrangle into my living room and b) kind of interesting and important (relatively speaking) to screen 16mm for younger people I work with (I am 37) who did not grow up with it in the classroom and may not even know the format exists. But I am not a gearhead or technical person. I try to know enough to not screw anything up or ruin the films. I did grow up shooting and editing Super-8, and cut on 16mm in film school, so I am not completely ignorant, but in my effort to make the leap to Scope I have screwed up at least one thing.
I got a scope lens off of Ebay that is both scope and its own prime lens. It said on the listing that it was good to go on all Eiki projectors. It's a Bausch and Lomb 2" lens. The listing also had an instruction booklet which the guy failed to send. I emailed him and he said he would send it along, but in the meantime I had also gotten my scope print of Parallax View that same day, and really wanted to check it out, so after an hour of resisting, I thought: surely I can figure this out.
At this point I have two problems. One is that I thought the 50mm lens already on the projector would just unscrew, so that's what I did, or at least thought I was doing, and ended up pulling it free instead of turning the focus knob until it was legitimately free (which I now know I should have done, having belatedly tracked down the projector manual online). So now whatever lens I put in there does not respond to the focus mechanism, except rarely and randomly. I don't know what it normally looks like, but the thing that is supposed to move the lens back and forth when you focus is a gooey, chewing gum-textured band that is warped and erractically shaped. I'm guessing it had deteriorated over time but was still getting the job done til I changed that. So that's problem one, not unrelated to problem two:
That lens is not meant for all Eiki projectors, which I suspect the booklet will confirm when and if it arrives. It became clear to me very shortly that it needed to get back much further than the 50mm lens (the, er, back lens is much smaller than the one on the 50mm), and that that was not far enough, even. I emailed the guy and he said, basically, "Oh yeah, on some Eikis you have to remove that little guard on the back of the pressure shoe to get it far back enough to focus. Don't worry, you don't need it for anything." Ok...so clearly it is not meant for my Eiki and I have to remove a part (even if as far as I can tell, he is right that I don't need it). Worse, every time you take the projector out of forward/ ready mode, the pressure shoe kicks the lens back forward an inch or so, ruining your focus by a mile. If I hadn't already made it so that the lenses were moving freely inside that cylinder, I have no idea what that would have meant for all the relevant mechanisms, but luckily I had already broken that. My first thought was, screw this! I'm sending it back since he misrepresented the lens, and getting one that screws on to the front of the 50mm. It's bad enough I have to completely refocus every time I stop the machine, but I have to do it by sliding the lens back and forth--kind of hard to finetune that way. As long as that pressure shoe is jolting the lens forward (that can't be good, either), no point in even trying to fix the focus mechanism.
That's when I discovered your lovely forum...and found a posting that said something about spatial distortion being likely when screwing a scope lens onto anything larger than 38mm, depending on the throw. I don't know if the prime part of my B&L scope lens is the equivalent of the 50mm, but it says 2", and I think I saw somewhere that my 50mm lens is also 2". If that's the case, okay, but the thing is the film looks great right now with no distortion at a distance of 18 feet and I wouldn't be thrilled to "fix" the lens situation for a lesser visual result. I guess I could get a 38mm lens but I'm already spending money I shouldn't between the print, the lens and a larger screen (I had to jump at having a chance to own this--weirdly enough, 16mm scope is how I first saw Parallax View, back in '93 or so, and I fell in love with both). And it sounded like there are other headaches associated with trying to convert your lens the screw-on way...I just wasn't sure if it would be rash to return this one.
So...I'm not even sure what I'm asking, except--any thoughts? Suggestions? Solutions? I would be happier with the ad hoc nature of using this lens if I could get the focus to work again, but how could I do that with the scope lens being in the way of the pressure shoe, etc? Sorry again this is so long, thanks for your time in reading it...
Andy

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted May 14, 2010 11:12 AM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello, Andy, and welcome aboard.

I don't have a definitive answer for you; some thoughts I can offer.

First: a 2-inch lens, yes, that is a 50mm, the standard 'default lens' supplied with the Eikis.
The lenses, as you discovered, slide out with the help of turning the focus knob.

The rubber compound for the focus is a common problem, though; the material deteriorates.
Rubber tubing (as found in a hardware store to wrap around pipes) is a possibility to put around the lens, or a bit of electrical tape wrapped around the rear of the lens barrel a time or two should give you some grip for the focus.

What is aggravating the focus problem for you is the weight of the combined prime/Scope lens. It's bound to be front-heavy.

Now, the key issue is that your lens is hitting the gate area.
There is no way that is meant to be like that.
Either the lens is not made for the SSL series (and I don't know the variables between the models; I have SSL-Os myself) or you are somehow managing to focus the Scope lens beyond its close-focusing distance (you said you are at 18ft.) in the process driving the rear element of the lens into the pressure plate area.

If the pressure plate is kicking the lens out, this is going to have bad consequences for the lens/gate at some point. You really don't want this.

The Eiki SSLs have, as an option, a swing-up arm in front of the lens where a separate 'Scope lens can be mounted permanently. You just rotate it in and out of place.
The advantage is that you have no additional weight on the main mount of the projector lens, plus you can easily switch between 'flat' and Scope presentation.

If the flier arrives, and it has a sane solution to this involving your lens and the SSL model, then good.
If not...perhaps a swing-up scope arm for the SSL and one of the Kowa or similar Scope lenses made for the Eikis could be your solution.
I can help you with that if you need to go that route, but for starters, see what the promised flier says about the lens.
And, if you run films now, rotate the lens out before opening the pressure plate of the projector, just to avoid damage.

I hope this is of some help.

Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted May 16, 2010 05:22 AM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Andy
I have struck this same trouble when putting an earlier model Eiki Lens into a Slot Loader Eiki. The lens kept getting hit and losing focus. So you can't use the wrong lens. You must have a late version Lens in that Eiki or you will have problems.
As for the rubber focus bush, get some Automotive winscreen washer tubing & remove the focus shaft and super glue a new length of rubber to the shaft. Lubricate then refit. Rotate as you refit the lens to prevent damage to the rubber.
dogtor frankarnstein [Razz]

--------------------
At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

____
[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
//``\\
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Andy Davis
Film Handler

Posts: 9
From: Portland, OR USA
Registered: Apr 2010


 - posted September 15, 2010 01:31 AM      Profile for Andy Davis   Email Andy Davis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for the replies. Sorry I am just now checking this, I had assumed I was only getting crickets chirping.
In the end, I sent the lens back to the seller and got what is evidently the later version from another seller. It screws on to my normal lens.
I ended up fixing the focus mechanism by sliding rubber tubing over the focus spindle to replace the deteriorated one. It works pretty well, but I think your electrical tape suggestion might help firm up the contact a little.
That swing arm sounds pretty good--focussing the scope picture at 80 inches wide is a very small-margin task, and sometimes it feels like it goes slightly soft after I let go of the lens. I'm not sure the issue is such that I need to go to all the trouble of the swing arm, but knowing what is responsible for that helps, and maybe I can prop something underneath, as I project off of a bookcase I keep in the shed for this, and the lens does not hang over empty air.
Thanks so much both of you for your time and suggestions. I have a few more scope prints already, and it's an unspeakable thrill to be running widescreen movies in my living room!

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted September 16, 2010 12:31 PM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings Andy

**looks like, but the thing that is supposed to move the lens back and forth when you focus is a gooey, chewing gum-textured band that is warped and erratically shaped.
Replace the focus Knob I have new ones at $16.50 plus mailing.

For the lens bracket you need a ACI-33701 CS Extension ASSY "D" for a Slimline

One has a extension that flips up over for the lens.
Your cost is $135.00 each NEW

ACI-33601 for The c's

I have placed a order as a Eiki Disturber for 2 of the D's, and 3 of the C's,I hope this is somewhat clear (help full)
I should have these in by Wednesday

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Andy Davis
Film Handler

Posts: 9
From: Portland, OR USA
Registered: Apr 2010


 - posted September 18, 2010 02:48 AM      Profile for Andy Davis   Email Andy Davis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Richard, if I decide to do that I know where to turn...
Andy

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted September 18, 2010 10:06 AM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings Andy

Glad to be of service
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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