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Author Topic: Identifying 16mm dupe prints
Tim Hartnell
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Gorleston, Norfolk, UK
Registered: May 2014

 - posted December 01, 2014 04:35 AM      Profile for Tim Hartnell   Email Tim Hartnell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all I recently sold a 16mm film to a fellow collector and he told me that the film was a dupe as it has film dye on the sprockets.I am not a expert on films but was wondering if this means that any film I own which has clear sprockets is most certainly an original.I have over 100 features to sell and would want to inform any buyers if they are dupes or originals.
Thanks Tim

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Alexander Vandeputte
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2009

 - posted December 01, 2014 01:20 PM      Profile for Alexander Vandeputte   Email Alexander Vandeputte   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A dupe usually means: a print that, in one way or another originates from a positive projection print and not from a proper negative. A copy of a copy. Dupe prints usually look more grainy and contrasty with blown out highlights and undefined blacks.

Clear sprockets mean: the print is made off a negative. But that negative can be anything: an original camera negative (OCN) or an internegative (IN) made from an interpositive (IP) or simply a negative made off a projection print.

Black sprockets mean: the print is a reversal print. A direct copy from either a 16 or 35mm positive. These are always dupes but sometimes the results can be quite good. For example: Kodachrome prints of IB Technicolor originals.

But sometimes the sprocket area is neither black or clear and this usually signals that someone left on the edge light in the printer...

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Tim Hartnell
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Gorleston, Norfolk, UK
Registered: May 2014

 - posted December 02, 2014 01:21 PM      Profile for Tim Hartnell   Email Tim Hartnell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great information Alexander many thanks for your help.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

 - posted December 02, 2014 02:57 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some dupe prints which are printed "back-to-back" from a projection positive will have their emulsion on the opposite side from normal. Such prints are produced emulsion to emulsion.


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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

 - posted December 06, 2014 12:06 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So Tim, don't issue a refund. I don't have a huge amount of 16mm, but I'm pretty sure of the various TV and educational prints I have, FEW have clear edges, and I am certain they would all qualify as "original." Clear edges are no guarantee of anything except being struck on release film from a negative.

I've had a B&W dupe or two with clear edges, by the way.

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