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Author Topic: Hello! Film bunching problem
Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 17, 2018 10:47 AM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all. I have just started to collect 8mm and 16mm ptojectors, and have a problem with my Bell and Howell 2580

It actually plays and sounds fine, but after a few seconds, the film starts bunching up usually from just below the gate.

Both the top feed wheel and the bottom one (the ones with the teeth one) are connected to the same gear inside so I dont see how one could possibly move faster than the other.
Yet for some reason it bunches up between the gate and the wheels where it passes the sound head.

It Usually bunches up in the section ive marked in RED, if not the section in GREEN. (yes I have the covers closed when trying)

Thanks for any advice.
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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 17, 2018 01:05 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well I just found this

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001662# 000000

and then I saw this in mine.....

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So any advice, help with getting to that thing to replace it?

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

- posted January 17, 2018 02:07 PM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings Matt
Sent you a E mail
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 17, 2018 04:03 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes thanks Richard! Very helpful.

So heres where I am now....transformer out, motor out, fan out
How do I get to the sprocket behind that lower wheel?

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted January 17, 2018 09:55 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it the worm gear you will be replacing?

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 17, 2018 10:26 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
no its the sprocket gear behind that big silver gear that the worm gear turns.
You can maybe see it just sticking out at the bottom

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted January 18, 2018 02:01 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem is that you need special tools to do this job. Richard does sell them I believe, but they are not cheap and the sprocket wheel is not cheap either. Probably best to have someone like Richard, who knows what they are doing, to do the repair for you.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted January 18, 2018 03:03 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Bell & Howell slot loaders are useful projectors, but the sprockets are not in line, hence the small extra sprocket which after all these years does give trouble by cracking.

--------------------
Maurice

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 18, 2018 09:24 AM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yeah mines badly cracked as you can see.

Thanks, I guess i'll have to decide whether I want to spend more than the $35 for the sprocket. Not sure I do honestly.
[Frown]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted January 18, 2018 10:15 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matt
Before you make any decision I suggest you give a thorough check of the main worm gear.
If the little gear is cracked it is quite possible that the worm is also about to give trouble.
Changing a worm is not as easy as it may look. Be warned.

--------------------
Maurice

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 18, 2018 02:47 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard has helped me alot and im almost there. Just need to pull off the sprocket and put the new one on.
The worm gear looks to be a good shape so I might be able to get this working fully for just the price of a sprocket which would be wonderful!

It would have been a shame to fail on this project as it works great in all other respects.

The dried oil/grease on all the gears bothers me though. I'll try to clean all that up as much as possible before reassembly.

I appreciate all the input, hopefully it'll back in action soon!

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted January 18, 2018 03:59 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What Maurice said. It is just a matter of time before the worm gear goes.

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 18, 2018 06:16 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well I'm an expert now I can handle it when it does [Smile]

heres the culprit, finally....

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Thanks for the help Richard

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted January 19, 2018 02:22 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well done Matt
Did you manage it without special tools or are they more readily available in the USA?. Let us know the outcome when you've re assembled it and got it up and running.

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 19, 2018 01:47 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was actually quite easy with just screwdrivers and allen wrenches.
The two sides come off this model making the bolts for the transformer and motor easy to access.
The worm gear looks a nastier job, I'll deal with that if/when

I have ordered a new one from Richard, hoping it works out then I'll have a very nice projector which actually cost me $4 from Goodwill [Smile]

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

- posted January 19, 2018 03:10 PM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings
Part was shipped out this Morning
Thank you Matt
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 22, 2018 05:25 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Got the part, thanks Richard that was fast.

I'm guessing I need to take off that silver piece to allow the new sprocket to fit. Its got allen screws but I have nothing that small.
I just went out and bought a whole set and none of them are the right size
Any clue as the exact size ?

Seems to be between 1.5 and 2.0 or 5/64 and 1/16th

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[ January 22, 2018, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Matt Darr ]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted January 23, 2018 06:11 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matt
Could it be a Torx screw?
I see that T6 is 1.70mm, and T7 is 1.99mm.
Some projectors did use Torx screws, and I think that included Bell & Howell.

--------------------
Maurice

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

- posted January 23, 2018 08:57 AM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings Matt
You should have a tool supply company near you
Take the new gear to them and get the right size of Allen wrench
( not any large stores like Home depot)
I don't recall the size
But i do have them in stock for $15.00 includes shipping
Much cheaper if you can get one yourself Under $2.00
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 23, 2018 09:56 AM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I dont think its Torx but Ill find a magnifier and check.

The screw with the gear you provided Richard, is sightly different, I have a wrench for that, seems to be 1.5
I'll try the 1.7 torx though, a 1.75 Allen doesnt seem to exist so you might be right.
Thanks

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted January 23, 2018 12:52 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Could it be a Bristol socket?

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 23, 2018 03:15 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
cant really tell, i'll try the torx and if that doesnt work I'll attempt to get a drill bit on it or Dremmel.
Failing that ill cut the middle out of this $35 new sprocket [Frown] <gulp>

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted January 23, 2018 04:08 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bell & Howell used Bristol screws on some of their projectors. I think one of my JANs had them. Larry sells them and I think Amazon has them also.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted January 23, 2018 04:25 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barry as I remember you are correct. That is what I was referring to when I mentioned 'special tools'. Better to use the correct tools, I would suggest, rather than drilling it out and maybe causing further problems.

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Matt Darr
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Little Rock, AR, USA
Registered: Jan 2018

- posted January 23, 2018 08:02 PM      Profile for Matt Darr   Email Matt Darr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
tough to get a good picture of it
Might just be a stripped hex
I think im gonna Dremel slots in them then use a flat head screwdriver

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[ January 23, 2018, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: Matt Darr ]

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