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Topic: Off-Topic..Sincere good wishes to Great Britain
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 27, 2005 01:37 PM
I do agree he shouldnt have been killed outright, nor anyone for that matter, As i understand it they did shout warnings to him to stop, do bear in mind this guy shouldnt have even been here in the first place as his visa was a year out of date. I'm not saying people should be just shot at, but he knew he was being pursued, They would have shouted that they were police the same as any countries undercover police would do, he was on the London underground which was attacked twice in two weeks so how else could they react. As they said on our tv, they thought he couild have had a bomb,and explained that had they had just pulled him down with a chest or leg shot it would still have been possible for him to detonate himself.
They were mistaken and it is definatly very sad that am innocent person was killed. In this particular circumstance i cant see any other way they could have dealt with it. Dont forget, if these scabs arnt all caught they will almost certainly have another go. I'm sure in the states the Police would not hesitate to shoot. In fact the gun is the law over there. I wouldnt even trespass in the States. And in a way thats a good thing. All in all, i agree with the Police on this one. London IS under attack, (who knows where else is next).
The one they caught was ready to strike again by the sound of it.
Please dont read this wrong. I'm not trying to be all gung ho, i just feel that the Police in the circumstances did what they had to do. And so soon after the attempted bombings what would you have done? How would US police have reacted or any other force for that matter? I'm sure many people will now do everthing they can to bring them down which is sad as it will divert attention away from the real dangers.
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 27, 2005 03:54 PM
Tom, your exactly right on this one. My son-in-law is an Orange County (Orlando) Deputy Sheriff. You cannot believe the flack the Police over here have to take from the Public and the press.
A few weeks ago he reponded to a call from a hysterical woman who said a stranger was in her back yard peering through the windows. He responded immediately and when he arrived he saw the suspect heading over the back fence. He put his own safety and well being on the line, and chased him over the fence and arrested him, probably saving the woman from rape or murder. And what was the thank's he got? Nothing! In fact the woman called the Orange County Sherrif's Department the next day and filed a complaint against him because he caused damage to her fence! Can you believe that! And this happens all the time. Guy's stealing cars (a la Rodney King) race through city blocks at 80 mph ramming other cars and endangering innocent peoples lives, and when they are finally caught after putting up resistance, they file charges against the police for abuse. I just don't get it. It seems like the rabble in our society get's more consideration than the people who are trying their best to do the right thing.
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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler
Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted July 28, 2005 03:20 AM
John, Tom,
what I mean is, if someone changes the rules, it should known to everybody....
Ok, I ask following .....
1. Was it announced in the british press or television that people will be shot, if they run away and it seems that they are terrorists? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
If not ...
2. What happened, when the brazilian would have had knew that rule? ![[Frown]](frown.gif) Or, did he knew that?.....
I know the British Police only as friendly Bobbies, thats the reason why I have had written the first comment.
"I for one won't listen to anything the press have to say about it until all the facts are known." That´s right and I will wait for more informations too.
Paul, I would say nothing if that innocent man was shot in USA, because it would me surprise no more where little childrens are treated as big criminals if they help they brothers and sisters to urinate or where 5 years old children exhausted in handcuff when they are not dear in the kindergarten.
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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 28, 2005 04:53 AM
I did say that I wouldn’t post on this subject again, but I thought I would have to come out in support of the British Police. It is rare that Tom and I agree on issues relating to terrorism and immigration but on this particular point I fully concur with what Tom [and John] have to say about the dilemma the Police found themselves in, it was truly a no-win situation.
In the battle against terrorism snap decisions absolutely have to be made, hesitation could well cost more lives. Had this man actually been a terrorist and the Police hadn’t taken the decision to shoot to kill, he might easily have detonated another bomb and caused death and injury to many, many innocent people, in which case the Police would be heavily criticised for not taking the necessary action given the information that they had and the actions of the individual.
In my view, the worst thing to come from the bombings is the report that attacks against Muslims in the UK have increased by 400% since the July 7th bombings, proof I suppose that the bombers are succeeding in their quest to play on the fears and ignorance of the small minded, Daily Mail reading, Union Flag waving Fascists and turn relatively peaceful communities against each other.
They will succeed only when the malaise of hatred has grown to such an extent that neither community will remember that it was actually the evil actions of just a few that have led to a break down in the understanding between the communities that make up this great country.
If anything, these horrific events should make us more inclined to build bridges in our society and try to understand the lives and interests of our fellow citizens regardless of their origin or appearance. Only then can we hope to truly defeat the terrorists.
Mike
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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 28, 2005 11:40 AM
Yeah, i do see common sense prevailing here. Oddly enough the Brazilian wasnt a muslum yet one of the first reaction was from the muslum community and human rights tossers saying that now the muslums fear for there lives???? Why is this so when the man shot in the head wasnt Muslum.That said i think we can all re-cap and say,
Very best wishes to all in London who now have to wonder when or where will the next strike be,
I take my Hat off to the Police,(and all the emergancy services) and do agree with the shoot to Kill in this circumtance,
As we now know the Guy was here illegally for over a year, I wonder if the rest of his mob where planning on coming over. And how much did he manage to sponge off our state. That last point goes to all those scum who support these people despite this Country taking these people in from all over and giving them council homes,(something i could never get) money etc. All those who support what is going on,As John Majour said, round them up and send them back.
Point of interest here, Did you all know that back along on Italian TV some guy went on air supporting some nasty movement over there and he and ALL his family were rounded up and de-ported.
John is right about the amount of people being given time to air there support for these clowns. It does so happen to be that these people are Muslim so if they feel they are being persecuted then they have to do something to give these people up as it it they who harber them. I see the Mosque is a good hiding place for them as told on the news.
Thats not being racist, its a fact.
BTW, i see the Brazilian was under suvailence for some time so he wasnt innocent at all. He cetainly didnt deserve what he got but he ran, ONTO A TUBE TRAIN, over the barrier and paid the price.
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 28, 2005 05:17 PM
I'm changing on this every minuite. I'm typing this add-on as i watch question time on the BBC (as usual giving the shit views of people slaming our Police over the killing). The more people who use the stupid term "excecution" over this suspect the more i do side with my decision that this was right. What the hell is getting into people. What do you think they should have done? Gees, the panal has a human rights bimbo carefully choosing her words to say every one has a right. How about men WOMAN AND CHILDREN on the tubes, in Egypt, in Iraq itself and other countries, did they have rights?
Sorry, but this thread for me on this is going back to what i said before, i cant be swayed over this, i wish everyone in London all the very best and take my hat off to the police and other emergency services but if people dont wake up and stop going on about,"the muslum community living in fear" then there will unfortunatly be more.
How about the English community living in fear. I dont think i've heard that yet.
The enemy has done a very good job of moving into this country.(& the States) They now have all there own rights, protection, speakers councilers etc and now they have what they want some of them are clearly unhappy with OUR western way of life/beliefs and are now bombing us in the most cowardly and wicked way. Woman and kids means nothing to these people.
Anyone in this country who is or has watched this program which is driving me mad every minute take note of how the BBC has once again ensured that muslins and asians outnumber the majority British people in the tv audience to ensure the general british view is minimised.
Not too sure about within London but down here most people think more like i do than what the TV put out.
Before anyone gets the wrong end of the stick it is not a racist view of Muslums but a fact. Many of the bombers are British born muslims who have been Brainwashed, others are also Muslums who have been given everything by us after seeking asylum here and have turned against us. How else is anyone suppose to think? I work with two and even though they dis-agree with what has happened they do make point that "its bound to happen". Is it? Religion, once again is the cause of problems. They never mix in harmony and most wars around the globe are caused by it.Al Quida are an extremist religous fantaical group and will never stop until they rule. It will never happen but unfortunatly many people will pay the price.
How many more Bombers need to get away with murder before the BBC will stop giving them air time and support and people wake up. If someone is a suspect bomber about to release his/her load then that person must be taken down in any way possible.
Unreal. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted July 28, 2005 11:23 PM
I teach school children, and as much as I have learned it is that you will never know what a child is thinking. We teach respect, we show respect, we model respect, and that does not imply that the child will grow with these values.
Hopefully something will stick. Hopefully if dialog is opened, people will become educated, and more inclined to understanding.
The new testament portrays Judas as the culprit to turn Christ over to be arrested. Wasn't he listening all the while? What did he hear?
Forgive the analogy, but it's the adage at times which is 'Damned if you do, and Damned if you don't.
This is not to sound negative, but all we can do is hope for the best.
The Police and all of the people of Great Britain are walking on a hair trigger, just aware to do only the correct thing for the safety of all. Indeed, reaction is high to see how a person is dramatically shot down. This touches everyone, is upsetting. But let's not forget that by and large, that police officers are people:human beings that are trained specialists only trying to do the right thing that they were trained to do. To serve and protect. Period.
This statement does not marginalize or minimize the sanctity of a human life, and pray that we are never reduced to face a situation as this.
I remember a few years ago, waiting to see the changing of the horse guard in London, there was a woman police officer asking the crowd to move behind the white line.
What seemed to be a 13 year old white (perhaps North American?) child, looked at her and showed disrespect by ignoring her. She pretended at first not to notice and then repeated herself, asking him to move back, to clear the way for the horses all a while he gave her a gaze of 'so What' and as if to imply 'Are you talking to Me?' In reality, this group squeezed in late in front of other people that were already behind the white line. She clarified that the horses needed to come through, and he needed to step back in safety. Some of the people that he was a party to, moved back slightly, but he did not budge. She did not hand cuff him. But his behavior on vacation (Holiday) seemed disgraceful in a host country.
Needless to say, she placed verbal pressure upon him to get him to move.
He did not move immediately, and it took some time,..... but he MOVED. And yes they spoke english.
I do not know what has happened to the good sense of people in the world?
Maybe I'm just a scaredy cat, that is afraid of authority! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Michael
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 29, 2005 01:22 AM
Tom, I also watched question time but it seems as though we saw two completely different programmes.
The one I watched showed a broad cross section of society, both ethnically and socially mixed, it was managed so that all views were heard. You have to begin to realise that there are other views than your own and that the people who have those views probably feel as passionately about them as you do yours, they do also have the right to express them. It doesn't make them right, either yours or theirs, but both must be heard and a dialogue must be encouraged in order to bring communities closer together.
I feel the BBC did a good job of representing all sides to this arguament and perhaps the fact that you were strongly at odds with several of the speakers should tell you that this was a balanced and not a strongly biassed discussion. If you always seek out like minded people with whom to discuss these matters, you will only become more and more angry and intransigent, which I think from reading your posts is what is happening.
I share your view about religion, as an atheist I would love to live in a peacable world where their was no religion, but as a libertarian I respect everyones right to their own religious beliefs, hard though it is...
Mike
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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...
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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm
Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted July 29, 2005 02:31 PM
I, too, smile at the fact that all of you are able to have these sensible and quite intelligent discussions on here. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Anyway, I don't have much to add as it's all been said, really - but to be honest I, too, was under the impression that the police more or less executed the Brazilian who was running away. Turns out I didn't really know what exactly happened until I read Tom's posts, and now I'm agreeing with him that they did the right thing. Well, perhaps not "right" but they did what they had to do, they did the only thing they could do. It shows that the media (again) failed miserably to properly inform at least one person - me - about the true nature of events and the decisions made by their participants. Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if the media was indeed responsible for all the lack of understanding and the angry feelings between cultures and societies, at least partly so.
Well, that's another two cents out of my pocketbook - but I'm ready to close this chapter if there are no further objections.
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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*
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