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Author Topic: Blu- Disc not catching on?
Christopher Way
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Bournemouth, England
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted November 07, 2008 04:43 AM      Profile for Christopher Way     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dare I come in here, [Big Grin] [Big Grin] . Personally, having read up on Blue Ray when it was brought onto the market, I felt it really had not advantages to anyone except the retailer. The name Blue Ray is only taken from the fact that the player has a blue ray (violet coloured) strobe, rather than the normal red. The discs are the same, but by using a costly BD Disc, and a costly BD Player up to an HD TV is really no different than using a normal DVD Player, through an HDMI Lead into your television. The latter is what brings it in to play I believe. I have a Toshibi LCD 1920 x 1080 which again, in my opinion gives the same result as one would get with BD.

In theory, the BD can store more data information than a normal DVD, upto 6 times the capacity. This obviously allows more data to enhance the production viewing of the BD, but one has to have the associated equipment withit. Myself and friends have viewed a BD Disc through a large projector on to a drop down screen 8 x 4. Again, we saw no difference in playing the same disc but a normal DVD.

This is probably what is holding up sales of the BD Disc and the equipment. One goes to the Electrical Retailers, such as Comet, and you are told that normal HD Equipment with HDMI, and the sales of normal DVDs are up on BD Discs and equipment.

The snag arises when such studios as Warner Brothers, as of March this year will only release films on BD. This in my mind could have the problem of forcing people to change, when they have perfectly good equipment.

A bit like Sky and Virgin telling people they need there systems for the change over to digital, when it can be put through a normal aerial upgraded, or at the most a digital box.

Regards, Chris

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted November 07, 2008 05:04 AM      Profile for David Park   Email David Park   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BD ?
A few of you here using this term, what does it mean, is it official to mean BluRay DVD?
I not seen BD used before in other places.

--------------------
Regards,
David

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Mark Williams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 846
From: West Sussex
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted November 07, 2008 05:23 AM      Profile for Mark Williams   Email Mark Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David,BD is the standard short term for Blu Ray,probably used more stateside than here in the UK.

I just read that the BD of IRON MAN shipped 500,000 units in the US a few weeks ago this has just set a new record for Blu Ray!!!

Chris,

Great to finally speak to you,don't worry I won't bite LOL!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

I beg to differ here but the difference between a standard DVD and a HD BD disc is staggering!! and if you project a BD in HD on an 8 x 4 screen you can really tell the difference believe you me.

I don't mean to sound rude here but I,m really surprised you can't tell the difference between the two mediums??

With regard to it being costly I would say that in the next few weeks you will really see some great deals on players and disccs coming thru,Blockbuster are doing a Samsung player and 4 discs for £199 which aint arf bad.

I pick up most of my discs on EBAY very cheaply and actually paid 0.99p this week for a sealed BD of NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN now that is really cheap as chips.

Cheers MW

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted November 07, 2008 06:40 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is also the question of want and need. Yes I would love a BlueRay player and the discs for it but for now I'd rather keep my money in my pocket. Besides I cant record on blueray yet and I'm more than happy with standard DVD. [Smile]

Graham S

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted November 07, 2008 07:06 AM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,
I think Chris was talking about the difference in BD and a DVD being upscaled, I think. I would love to get the chance to compare that, but can't see how the DVD could be as good as a BD. I can slightly upscale, when i do the picture does have more detail, but more artefacts as the original bitrate stays the same, you can't add more info. On a BD disk you have up to 40 Megabits per second against DVD with up to only a max of 11 megabits per second.

The next step up is SUPERVISION with a resolution of 7680 x 4320 [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Smile] [Wink]

--------------------
Chris Quinn Rides again.

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted November 07, 2008 07:09 AM      Profile for David Park   Email David Park   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham is it just that you havn't got a recording machine?
I'm sure I've seen BD recordable discs on the internet.

--------------------
Regards,
David

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted November 07, 2008 10:14 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
and then, there is a 1080p regular DVD players. The day after Thanksgiving, Radio Shack (locally) is selling the up-converting to 1080p regular DVD players for 29.00 dollars! I've seen these players hooked up to a Hi Def TV (with regular DVD and up-converting DVD player side by side, and there is a nice difference, which leads me to honestly say, what's the point at getting the Blur-ray anytime soon?

That, and there really has to be enough films out there to actually buy on Blu-Ray for me. I rarely see films that I would shell out the bucks for these days. Indiana Jones 4 was the first one (new films, not classics), that I have bought in almost a year!

Perhaps, sooner or later, everything will shift to Blu-Ray, but until then, I see no need to.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 07, 2008 11:50 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been using an Optoma 1080p capable projector for the last six months or so. I was going to use it with my old Sony DVD player until I invested in Blu-ray, but with HD-DVD being sold off so cheaply, as an interim I bought a cheap HD-DVD player.

The idea was to see what HD material looked like (buying up a few cheap HD-DVDs) and to use the player as an upscaler for my standard discs.

Firstly, I have found the difference between standard DVD and HD-DVD dramatic on a large screen.

Of course, HDMI is required to carry the HD information, but it is the quality difference on the discs that makes the difference.

I have found up-scaling a mixed bag; most standard DVDs do look sharper BUT, as has been mentioned, many suffer from the introduction of additional artifacts, the most annoying being the appearence of frequent "jaggies" on vertical lines.

Recently a well known publication in the UK ran a test on a range of standard DVD up-scaling players. Their conclusion was that whilst all did the job, only a £400 pioneer really passed all the criteria for doing the job properly. In other words, the player may up-scale on paper, but the results can vary wildly.

My experience of my Toshiba HD-DVD player backs this up. It does up-scale, but often not well, improving certain aspects of the image whilst playing havoc with others. Add to that the fact that it fails to get real detail out of dark areas of the picture (my six year old Sony which only outputs a bog standard 576i signal has much better detail in dark scenes and despite looking softer, has a much smoother, more pleasing image from most standard DVDs).

So, for me, the next step is a DECENT Blu-ray player which not only plays Blu-ray discs well, but also up-scales DVDs...and does a PROPER job of it!

And therein is a bit of a problem - after a lot of research, non of the current models really seem to do this and I'm waiting for the next range of players (there is a promising pioneer due out any day).

Annoying really as having seen what HD content looks like, I really want to get on with Blu-ray, but if I'm going to invest, it really has to be the right player.

To me, HD content is the closest video format ever to compare with watching, say, really good 16mm film at home (I think claiming it looks like 35mm is pushing it [Wink] ) and it would be a massive shame if Blu-ray fails due to poor marketing.

[ November 07, 2008, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Rob Young. ]

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Charles Bramlett
Junior
Posts: 25
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted November 07, 2008 02:49 PM      Profile for Charles Bramlett   Email Charles Bramlett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christopher P Quinn- Does your player not have the option to change the aspect ratio? My DVD player uses an HDMI connection... but for 4:3 movies all I have to do is select "Vertical Fit" to watch the movie in the proper aspect ratio.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 07, 2008 07:52 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Any decent display will be adaptable to the native image from the disc / disc player.

Nothing to do with HDMI connectivity.

With current technology the least of your worries should be getting the image the right shape [Wink]

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted November 08, 2008 01:58 AM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Charles & Rob,
First of all, i don't seem to have vertical fit on my unit, only 4:3 pan & scan 4:3 letterbox & 16:9, so this could be the problem. I have though heard of aspect problems before and thought this was a problem with HDMI connection. I will have to investigate more. Funny thing is the projector will not change aspect at all in HDMI, but in component it will and the 4:3 looks fine. [Confused] [Confused] [Confused] [Confused]
Rob, Please could you tell me the pioneer player you are looking at, I was looking at the Panasonic DMP-BD35. But, after reading your post i am now thinking harder about the player i need to get.
I was even thinking PS3. I think now it is best to buy as best as i can, rather than be disappointed later on.

Cheers,
Chris.

--------------------
Chris Quinn Rides again.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 08, 2008 04:32 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
HD DVD had backwards compatability with DVD. By that I mean the labs set up to press/stamp DVD could also cope with HD DVD. Blu-Ray has meant a complete overhaul of the systems used. Hope that clears up any misaprehensions about my last post.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 08, 2008 04:48 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Christopher. The pioneer is the BDPLX71. There is a review by What Hi-Fi which gives it the thumbs up but sadly doesn't look at the up-scaling performance in any depth. Unfortunately it retails at £600 currently. Waiting for more reviews and hopefully a demo.

The Panasonic range do get great reviews as Blu-ray players and I know the BD-35 can be found at around £200 which has to be a bargain.

It is just my view (I am a bit hard to please! [Roll Eyes] ) but reviews I have read on later Panasonic models like the BD-50, whilst again giving it the thumbs up as a Blu-ray player, mention that it still doesn't quite cut the mustard as an up-scaler. If you have a look at www.homecinemachoioce.com (a magazine I have bought for years and whose tests are very good) they state that the BD-50, "marginally failed the HQV Benchmark "jaggies" test".

Alright, I know it says "marginally"; but from a £400 machine???

Also I know many people use the PS3 and love it and I totally respect their views. But for me it seems like a stop-gap solution when there should be more, better stand-alone players on the market.

That's my main frustration with Blu-ray; there should be more players from more manufacturers out there before it is too late.

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted November 08, 2008 05:23 AM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
HD DVD had backwards compatability with DVD. By that I mean the labs set up to press/stamp DVD could also cope with HD DVD. Blu-Ray has meant a complete overhaul of the systems used. Hope that clears up any misaprehensions about my last post.
John,
In your original post you said
quote:

Shame HD DVD didn't win out as that was a more suitable format.

Still not sure why you feel this way, unless you are a manufacturer of DVDs. [Confused] But i wouldn't put that pass you. [Wink]

Rob, Cheers again, I am now thinking if her indoors will except the fact that we need to have this. I doubt it, but working on it.
[Smile]

--------------------
Chris Quinn Rides again.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted November 08, 2008 07:15 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Best thing for Blu-Ray would be to allow the Chinese to make them cheap and get the format going big time in homes and I expect the main boys would actually then sell much more product as the whole thing evolves and many folks still go for branded products.
Theres protectionism going on that is actually stiffling the format big time I think.
Best Mark.
PS theres still no actual catagory on ebay UK for BR either oddly, you would think the BR chaps would be on to them as that would help.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 09, 2008 03:19 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pretty much it Chris. My releases are pressed by Sony so Blu-Ray is currently far too expensive. HD DVD would have been little different as it's compatible with DVD and all the labs were geared up for it. Undoubtedly a more suitable format to supplant DVD and it is generally suspected dirty tricks went on to foister Blu-Ray ahead of HD DVD.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 09, 2008 05:04 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You guys have me totally lost with all this technical talk. I have no idea what upscaling is or HDMI or 1080p or anything. Is there an idiot guide on the web you can point me to?

Infact, better still, just tell me what to buy [Wink]

--------------------
Tony

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Christopher Way
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Bournemouth, England
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted November 09, 2008 11:35 AM      Profile for Christopher Way     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for all your views, comments and ideas. I am still not convinced at present to the BD system, when I feel I can get the same response using HDMI upgrade into my system. Secondly, what do I then do with all the normal DVDs I have now. Can I play them on BD.

Regards, Chris

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Mark Williams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 846
From: West Sussex
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted November 09, 2008 11:52 AM      Profile for Mark Williams   Email Mark Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No probs,Yes the great thing about the BD players is that they are backwards compatable so you can play your old dvds and upscale them to 1080p no problem.

My dvd of WAR OF THE WORLD looked great when I watched it on the projector the other night.

Cheers MW

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Chip Carpenter
Film Handler

Posts: 32
From: Newport News, VA, USA
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted November 09, 2008 11:57 AM      Profile for Chip Carpenter   Email Chip Carpenter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Secondly, what do I then do with all the normal DVDs I have now. Can I play them on BD.

While not mandatory - most Blu Ray players will play regular DVDs and CDs. Some even upscale regular DVDs, others play other computer formated files (wma, etc).

Chip

--------------------
Elmo ST-1200HD M with the Elmo 1.1 Lens and a Chinon 2500GL

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted November 09, 2008 01:12 PM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah got you now John. [Wink] [Wink] say no more... [Smile]

I can't say much about BD as i haven't got the means yet of experimenting, in fact i have no means at all, and these silver discs keep falling off the Sankyo 700 [Big Grin]

But, I'm still positively thinking that BD is going to give me some great results, over DVD.
Interestingly Sony have stated that BD will be the last in the DVD silver disc technology. No more spinning discs. A kind of memory card system is already being tested in the labs.

--------------------
Chris Quinn Rides again.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 09, 2008 01:26 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So we all go out and buy BD movies and BD players, and then 5 years from now we are expected to do it all over again with a new memory card system? Count me out!

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted November 09, 2008 01:26 PM      Profile for David Park   Email David Park   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interestingly Sony have stated that BD will be the last in the DVD silver disc technology. No more spinning discs. A kind of memory card system is already being tested in the labs.
------------------
Chris Quinn Rides again.

Oh dear I feel another system war is ahead of us.

--------------------
Regards,
David

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Chip Carpenter
Film Handler

Posts: 32
From: Newport News, VA, USA
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted November 09, 2008 02:41 PM      Profile for Chip Carpenter   Email Chip Carpenter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
woo-hoo! another opportunity to be an early adopter of a technology that has a 75% chance on not becoming a widely adopted standard!

[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Chip

--------------------
Elmo ST-1200HD M with the Elmo 1.1 Lens and a Chinon 2500GL

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted November 09, 2008 03:17 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On that front then I think std DVD is going to win and win big time. Its tangiable its round and shiney and nice to handle and own.
I think if they go down the chip,/ card storage route they will drop a clanger.
Best Mark.

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