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Topic: My Blu-Ray Experience
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted June 30, 2009 11:14 PM
OK, I know I am talking with absolutely no experience with BR. I'm still back in the days of DVD and of course Super 8.
My concern is that, obviously, film will be obselete. My question is will the video transfer have that wonderful look of film, or will it be a glorified video image.
While a "classic" TV video image is quite fascinating, (such as music video from the early seventies, restored to look like they were just shot yesterday. Its as if time has never past at all!), I wouldn't like seeing a 32 fps video image instead of a 24 fps film transfer in a movie theater.
Just where do we go from here? We are now up to the point where we can literally see no difference between the film print and the BR image.
Besides, in some ways, many actors would not be in favor of the crystal clear image of our future "digital film transfers". It would pick up EVERY imperfection in them, brilliantly displayed for all to see.
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 01, 2009 04:40 AM
Osi, my experience is that Blu-ray (and HD-DVD before it) can look more like film than DVD (or any previous video system) ever did. Of course this is when the movie has been originated on film, but thankfully that still applies to the majority of productions. The extra detail and even grain on show are all part of the film original and with HD, much more of that is captured, so you end up with the look of a high quality print as opposed to a sterile video image (although I know lots of debate continues over various re-mastering techniques such as grain removal, which is where things become more subjective).
But when a transfer is done with skill and respect the image, I find anyway, is "filmic". Plus, there is not so much need for video "tweaking", such as edge enhancement which, I think, plagues DVD, especially on a big screen. So, again, you end up with an image closer to ther film original.
But you raise a good point, this is when the movie has been originated on film as opposed to HD.
When HD cameras do get to a point where they can genuinely compete with film (just my opinion, but despite a lot of hype I think they have some way to go yet) it surely still remains the job of the cinematographer to photograph the "look" they want. And if that means everything soft and moody then everything will look soft and moody, despite the possible resolution on offer? If an actor has acne then stick a stocking over the lens...
I think to many HD simply implies better definintion (I mean, this is how it is marketed) and whereas there are many benefits to HD technology, I don't see why originating on future (hopefully better) HD cameras should neccesarily change the look of a production, that is the the hands of the director of photography and HD will only be a different tool. I hope.
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Ronnie Sortor
Junior
Posts: 20
From: Springfield, MO USA
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted July 02, 2009 01:07 PM
Wow, Paul! Your Panny 700U is still running? You're one of the lucky ones as this projector's power-supply unit is prone to failure. Mine died two months out of warranty and I've boycotted that brand. Replaced it with the Sanyo Z4, (yeah, I know Sanyo has been bought out by Panasonic, but they still offer a much longer 3-year warranty and to my eyes, after calibration, the Z4 produced a better image than the 700U anyway) which itself was replaced with the Sanyo PLV Z3000 1080p projector when I took the Blu-ray plunge earlier this year because it nagged me that with only 720p resolution, the whole picture wasn't quite being presented. I gotta tell ya, 1080p is well-worth upgrading to! It's more than just that, technology has improved a lot in the last five years and the quality of LCD projectors is remarkably better! Better color reproduction, much higher contrast ratio and image detail. So, anyone on the fence for Blu-ray or HD projection, here's a little push from a voice of experience. Digital may never equal film, but it's getting closer and closer all the time!
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 02, 2009 06:37 PM
Steven, when Clones & Sith finally arrive on Blu-ray (in about 6 months) I'm sure Lucas will have a big song and dance about how technology wasn't quite up to it at the time (2005 ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ) and the "new" versions will be sooo much better...plus they will probably have ewoks in them ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
With further reference to HD; in the last 18 months or so I have had the, erm... "educational" experience of investing in various "state of the art" HD projection and media.
Suffice to say that I have now lost a lot of harned earned cash by investing in total and utter (excuse me) c**p; which is currently sold as, generally speaking, highly regarded kit.
I'm not bitter (well, I am really ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ) and I did do my homework (as a broadcast cameraman I have to be constantly aware of new developments in photography and displays - it's my living) but I have learned, or should I say, re-learned some rather fundamental lessons that I should never have forgotten; the most most basic being, I guess, believe your own eyes!!!
Forget HD for the moment and ask yourself these questions when investing in a new video projector...(or TV)...
Does you display offer true (or close to true) black level? If not then forget contrast ratio...honestly about 500:1 will really do if you can produce good black, then anything on top is a bonus. 30,000:1...50,000:1...nonsense. Sure, very, very bright whites and very dark, erm, greys...useless...great contrast range but no real shadow detail = rubbish, especially for watching movies.
Video processing...even some of the best, most highly regarded video prosessor manufacturer's in the business (which are commonly fitted to various makes of video projector) are, well, in my humble opinion...adequate at best. Forget 10 bit, 12 bit, blah, blah, blah...look at a blue sky in an average motion picture (or any background with gradations of the same colour) and see if there is a smooth rendition of colour gradient, or "join" where gradations meet. I'm not being picky...once you notice it in backgrounds you'll soon see it apparent in all aspects of the image. Rubbish video processing...don't accept it, better equally affordable options are out there.
Jaggies. The plague of video images. All sorts of reasons for these to show up and I'm sure many of you will be keen to offer very technical explanations. Fact is, when a fine diagonal line of detail passes through a video image there is no reason why it should (with modern kit) break up into a shimmering mess of lines. But all too often it does. Now I'm not talking CRT TVs with Laser Disc here, I'm talking "state of the art" 1080p displays with, at least, a DVD up-scaling player. Jaggies should be non- (well...almost) non-existence. If not, then either display or up-scaler is no good. Again, look elsewhere.
Colour calibration...how tedious is this bit . Your display should be calibrated to 6500K for natural presentation. Brilliant...and you can really spend a small fortune having someone come to your house and calibrate your whites so that they are spot on (and, no, not refering to your laundry!) Then you'll notice that (despite being able to see hardly any level of detail in dark scenes, and lots of weird colour artifacts all over the place, and that everytime an x-wing fighter attacks the death star it's wings break up into a weird shimmer) that actually, the colour looks a bit...well...odd. You'll think to yourself, "I don't remember Pierce Brosnan having jaundice when I saw Mamma Mia at the cinema???",
Then you'll reach for the remote and re-set the colour temperature of your display the way you want it anyway...the way that looks natural to you...the way a lab tech would set up a printer...with their EYES!
Then...and only then...(hopefully)...you'll finally notice how nice and sharp everything is...
Anyway guys...hope you will all take this with the jest with which it was meant...I know a lot of you will disagree (or just think I'm mental) - actually I now love my current video kit ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) . It just took a lot of harsh experiences and wasted money to get there.
But you know, super 8 is so much easier...and less to worry about...maybe that's why it's me hobby! Quick, where's me Elmo and that 1970's print of "Project the right Image". In those days, all you had to worry about was whether or not your extension lead was long enough...
And let's not even get on to motion judder... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ July 03, 2009, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: Rob Young. ]
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 12, 2009 10:51 AM
Thanks Chris. So far, I am very impressed with Blu-Ray, having now rented several BD discs and having had an opportunity to really scrutinize the picture quality in a home environment. Of the ones I have so far viewed, the three Disney BD releases are right at the very top, along with the new BD of 'South Pacific'. All are truly gorgeous PQ with stunning color and detail - you could not wish for anything better - as good as the professional cinema. However, I have seen several lesser BD titles which seem no different, or very little different, in quality than a good DVD, which raises the question whether or not some BD titles are in fact genuine HD.
Blu-Ray discs are still expensive here in the USA, with premium 2-disc titles, like 'How The West Was Won', going for about $35.00 in the local book store. So I shall be restricting my BD purchases to the great classic film titles like Snow White, Fantasia, Wizard of Oz etc. I certainly will not be buying any run of the mill modern titles, which appear to be 99% of the present BD catalog. I don't know who is buying these, since most of these modern films are only worth seeing once - at best!
From my perspective, BD presently poses no threat at all to DVD - DVD still has an overwhelming lead in the great film titles and most of the best collectors editions are on DVD, not Blu Ray. So blu-ray has a long way to go to catch up with DVD - if it ever does.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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does make me wonder if people who buy this Blu-Ray.. and thats including myself really understand very much of what is stated.....however...it does sound good 
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