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Topic: Caution and advice on ebay ...
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 03, 2009 10:59 AM
I am preparing to bid on an auction that I have just seen ...
(by the way, thanks to our own Shorty for revealing the auction, as I don't watch ebay everyday anymore .... as a general rule).
... and I think I will check to see if this seller is on the level, or if he has a ghost bidder working with him. The reason why is this ...
I was watching one of his items, and I saw it shoot up in bids overnight. Now, one of the nice things about our current ebay is that you can look at all the bids and see who has been bidding. I noticed on the item that there were a number of bidders, with high numbers of buys or sells ...
... and then a see that one other person entered the fray, bidding every minute and bringing up the item quite high, and THIS new bidder had only one either buy or sell. That makes me very suspicious.
So, my plot is this ...
I will bid on an item other than the one that I want, and see if this item will suddenly have one person who suddenly appears, (with many bids but no buy or sells to they're identity) and really bids it up.
If this is the case (and it will be VERY suspicious if it is the same person!), THEN I will contact the seller and see if he has ANY idea as to who it is ...
... and make it known that I want to bid on his items, but want to be sure before I bid ...
This may then make the seller, (if he is ghost bidding his own items) back off, because he knows that he's caught, (so to speak) and I may then have an even chance of having a legitimate bidding on an item.
What do you guys think.
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 03, 2009 10:52 PM
I guess I'm getting old. I live (in my mind) in an ancient world where you don't try to cheat the other guy with an "unfair advantage", even if you can purchase that advantage.
I'd rather bid and win an item because it was a an honest auction; competing with another person who may want it as much as myself, and using my shrewdness in order to get an item, (playing the odds, knowing when to bid.)
That way, when I win an item, I truly won it, I didn't cheat to get it, and sniper bidding is cheating.
I can't give a link. I haven't conducted my little experiment as of yet. It's all about timing.
What I meant was that when I see a person who has never bid on things before, (or perhaps one bid), and the bids go up in one dollar incriments until it gets to certain high and then that bidder stops ... it is possible that it might be a legitimate first timer on ebay, but the odds are that it is not.
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 03, 2009 11:22 PM
quote: I live (in my mind) in an ancient world
Osi, you cannot live in an ancient world when dealing with Ebay, because Ebay itself is a modern auction. There is no any online auction before 1990s. So this is a technology development and must be dealt with another invention.
quote: sniper bidding is cheating.
It is quite debatable. In 1920s when telephone was not widely present, old-fashioned auction was done face to face. But today's live auction, a bidder is allowed to be represented by a phone. He is not present in the auction room and remains unidentified by public. Again, this is about a new era.
Waiting in front of a computer until minutes before the auction ends, (at least for myself), there is no different meaning to be represented by a sniper service (pls refer to a bidder in a live auction be represented by a telephone).
quote: What I meant was that when I see a person who has never bid on things before, (or perhaps one bid), and the bids go up in one dollar incriments until it gets to certain high and then that bidder stops ...
I am afraid you raise the same question that many members here had explained previously (in 2 posts) how the Ebay auction works. The show of increments bid you've seen is resulted by another bidders (it can be yourself) who was trying to approach the highest bidder bit by bit (e.g. for every a dollar). So he didn't actually put a bid by a dollar increments.
Maybe,
-------------------- Winbert
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 04, 2009 08:41 AM
First of all, I am using snipers service (www.snipestreet.com) for all bids,..... unles for an item that I have been looking deadly so far.
Osi and John, it seems to me that you don't agree with sniper service, since it will decrease the meaning of auction itself.
Let me tell you something, at least I have 2 main reasons of not to against the sniper service.
First, what will I (you) do if I (you) find "A Derann Star Wars full feature with $9.99 starting price"? (or in your case, perhaps "Popeye and AliBaba").
Will I put my bid on sniper service....? The answer is absolutely NO!
As the starting price is quite low, I am going to put my bid first, at least to test the water, by putting $20 bid. At least it secure me that my ID is on the bidder list.
Why I am not going to use sniper service? Because it is a machine and still a machine. There are many variables that can fail the systems, eg. low bandwidth at the end of auction, electric supply may cut off, another bidder use the same service, network busy,etc, etc...
And I think it is not only me thinking the same. Every people use the sniper service will have the same worry.
So, each of us who find the item that they have been looking so far, will try to approach the bid using the normal Ebay system.
What is going to happen in the example case above?... someone will outbid me eventually and the price will keep going up, so on...and so on...
My reason no. 2 is going to be written later on, after you understand this.
-------------------- Winbert
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 04, 2009 09:57 AM
I feel bad that I brought bad feelings upon our own Shorty. Don't feel downcast. You are not responsible for my gripes with ebay. That's me own cross to bear.
The bidding that I refer to in that specific auction is a person who does not appear to have any desire to really buy the item. They are there merely to inflate the price.
Don't get me wrong. I was actually tempted to do so myself on one of my own auctions about three years ago. I had thought of starting another ebay identity, just to bid up an auction, when someone else would bid, but my conscience spoke to me.
Hey, I'm not a squeaky clean person myself. Some of the things I've either done for my country (in service) I wish to God that I could take back, or other terrible choices of my teen years were horrible. Somewhere along the line, I developed a conscience and integrity.
I think it comes down to thinking about how would I feel if I was on the receiving end of the action in question, (for instance, if I was the one being sniped, and it was something I REALLY wanted). I came to a point of no longer saying, "screw the other guy, I'm numero uno!".
If I win something, then it's a legitimate win. If I lose on an auction, then that is fine, as long as I played fair. Bid sniping is really not playing fair. It's like the person as a child, (and you still see it as adults) when a person cuts in line. Everyone gets pissed at the arrogant S.O.B. who just thinks because he can get away with something, then that makes it O.K.
Now, of course, that person, who will cut in line, will suddenly feel that he has been wronged is someone cuts in front of him! Oh boy, he'll get really pissed, but hey, it's O.K. to cut in front of all those other people who played by the rules.
The bid sniper is the person cutting in line. Can you get away with it? Yes? Does that make it right? No.
"We'll OSI, we don't live in a perfect world, so that makes it O.K.
Every time we say this, we're allowing ourselves to slide, as a society, just that much closer to the precipice, inches away from falling off the edge, and then, as were falling, having the nerve to look surprised ... "Duh, how did we come to this?"
"Cutting in line (sniping) is A-O.K. because I can get away with it"
"Drinking and driving is A-O.K., because I can get away with it."
(tell that to a friend of mine who had they're four year old smeared into the pavement a year ago.)
... and the depravity goes on and on.
Wow, I didn't mean for this to become so big of an issue!
Oh, to answer one statement. I never, when I was "leaving ebay" was leaving completely. I was going to stop selling, but my desire to still buy off of ebay was never going to end completely, as there is always the chance that something that you want will come up. It's just the selling end that I was leaving.
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Michael O'Regan
Film God
Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted August 04, 2009 10:48 AM
Osi said: "Every time we say this, we're allowing ourselves to slide, as a society, just that much closer to the precipice, inches away from falling off the edge, and then, as were falling, having the nerve to look surprised ... "Duh, how did we come to this?" "
I really don't feel auction sniping is quite as depraved as all that...
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Glenn Brady
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 117
From: North Carolina, USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted August 04, 2009 12:44 PM
There are times when I'd like to bid for an item when I'm not at a computer (e.g., when an eBay listing ends in the wee hours of the morning or when I'm away) and a sniping service is an ideal way to do that. In addition, my DSL service is occasionally unreliable, so, when I want some assurance that I'll have an opportunity to bid for an item if the link goes down, a sniping service again proves invaluable. Although I'll occasionally bid for an item well before its listing ends, I've found over the course of years that I've got a better chance of winning an auction (and winning at a lesser price) if I bid in the closing seconds. Whether I do the bidding myself or employ a sniping service, I'm optimizing my chances and playing by the rules. To say that this constitutes "cutting in line" is ridiculous. While there are undoubtedly behaviors at eBay that shouldn't be tolerated, sniping isn't one of them.
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 04, 2009 01:33 PM
It's not rediculous.
Though I understand the point of not being able to be up, (for instance) at the time that the auction ends and it's the only way a person can bid. No, that's not really true. I know that if an item that I wanted ended at three in the morning, it's not that much of a stretch for me to set the clock for three and be there.
(on a humorous note, wouldn't it be funny if a person sets a sniper program on an auction, dies in his sleep, and wins the auction anyhow? Oh well, I've always liked morbid humor!)
A person who says that sniper bidding isn't a bad thing, would raise hell if someone else sniped them, plain and simple.
Though I will agree that someone sniping an auction isn't going to launch the missiles to end World War 3, people in general, do not realize that that when they allow either in society or they're own lives some form of compromise, (and the heart knows the truth, whether the lips will admit it), each step is a step rarely upward, but downward.
Back in the 60's (or perhaps the late 50's) the Russian premier, (I forget, but I bet it was Kruschev), when asked how to destroy they're one time nemesis, the USA, (some over there would still consider us the nemesis, and no doubt some over here would say the same.) stated that they wouldn't havwe to fire a single missile over here to truly defeat us.
Nope, the defeat would be to change the ideals, the very thought patterns. The best way to defeat the USA is to bring down, peg by peg, from inside. Not a single missile need be fired.
While I'm speaking on generalities, it does all come down to the conscience of the individual. Though I would like to honestly be the winner of the auction, I won't attempt to win it if it means taking an unfair advantage over the next person.
Respecting the other person and they're rights is just part of living within a society. The whole "I'm looking out for numero uno!" mentality, in the end, leads to chaos.
and to think, this just started out looking for advice. Quite entertaining, though.
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 04, 2009 01:50 PM
It seems the discussion now a bit off topic shifting to discus about sniper bidding service.
OK before I continue with this, firstly I'd like to get back to the initial issue made by Osi.
Osi, have you understood now about how Ebay auction work? Because this is your 3rd post questioning another bidder that has outbid you in the last minutes or put an increment by a dollar.
So, from your story above, I would say no one has done cheating on the auction you mentioned.
If you have understood this than I'll continue with another topic about sniping.
As I said, I have another main reason why not to against snipping (live snipping or with bid sniper service).
REASON NO. 2
If Ebay feels sniping (using sniper service or just do live sniping) is detrimental to the Ebay's live itself, Ebay can easily do to avoid this:
1. To avoid live-sniping, Ebay can regulate an automatic auction time extension by giving another additional 5 minutes, 10 minutes extension or whatever, every time there is a sniper bidding in, say, 30 seconds before an auction end. So there is no a sniper in a real sense. This has been discussed before, but Ebay did (haven't) take this action
2. To avoid sniper software or web-based, Ebay can automatically (a very easy job) change the web page structure in 1 minute or 30 sec before an auction end. If you know how the software works, they just a machine, which only understand the structure of web page that previously installed. Once Ebay change (for example) the URL link or the place to put our bid, then, there is no automatic software that CAN understand. Only a person who is doing live-snipe can place a bid. This has been once done by Ebay and all sniper service have failed to snip. But then Ebay didn't take any more action, and just leave the sniper services are taking the action.
So, for sniper service, as Glenn mentioned above, there are a lot of reasons people using it. Remember, the time difference because our globe is divided in 24 hours time frame. You cannot (or are unpleasant to) bid if the item is ended during your sleeping time.
Also some people worry on their bad internet connection, especially those who live in developing countries (eg. my self, I used to live in Indonesia and Fiji) using a dial up connection which may fail a bid in the last minutes because of bad network.
Lastly, for Osi, if you think you really love an item (for example, there is Popeye and Alibaba right now), DO NOT try to put a bid by a few dollar in hoping that will be the final price. Put the maximum highest you never imagined (say $150). I believe you will win the auction. And if someone is approaching you by $145, then you still win the auction but has to pay for $145.50. Don't be sorry with this result, because that what you are willing to pay for.
Indeed, if there has been no one with the same interest it will stay at $9 (as it starting price) and you pay for a very low price. It is your lucky day. But remember, it is not only you who is interested for the very same item.
(ps: sorry to mention the very exact item, because you mentioned your interest that reel many times and now is on Ebay).
quote: The bidding that I refer to in that specific auction is a person who does not appear to have any desire to really buy the item. They are there merely to inflate the price.
You are so suspicious to everyone.... There are many reasons why people bidding on the item he/she is not previously interested (so zero feedback on 8mm), for example:
1. Nostalgic reasons, he remember one episode of that very film when his/her father started giving him/her a film show. He/she wants that memory back.
2. He has been badly looking for that very episode in DVD format and only to find he is fail. He is then thinking to buy 8mm format and do transfer later on.
3. He loves the different artworks that he never find before.
4. A completish that wants to have that very episode in any format available in the world (LD, VCD, DVD, VHS, Betamax, you mention it). I have met a person doing this.
5. He has a new 8mm projector and wants to have a reel for trial and accidentlly that is the reel you are bidding on.
6. He is helping a non-ebayer to buy the item (it's simple as it is)
7. etc, etc....
regards [ August 04, 2009, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]
-------------------- Winbert
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Glenn Brady
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 117
From: North Carolina, USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted August 04, 2009 03:49 PM
Getting up at three in the morning to bid for an item when you could do so automatically and at no charge through a sniping service is ridiculous.
"A person who says that sniper bidding isn't a bad thing, would raise hell if someone else sniped them, plain and simple." You may raise hell, Osi, but most of us just accept that someone offered more for the item than we did. I'm beaten all the time in auctions, but I don't whine about it. If eBay is a source of so much anguish for you, it might be better if you stayed away. Get over it and give the rest of us a break from your rants about eBay sniping signaling the impending collapse of society. [ August 16, 2009, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Brady ]
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 04, 2009 04:05 PM
Ooooh, touchy touchy, Glenn!
I wasn't that upset about "snipers". It appears that snipers are a rather touchy bunch. Merely stating an opinion about something doesn't mean your whiney or some other less regal wording concerning it. It's merely an opinion.
Bear in mind that I am not the only person who feels this way and actually, if you look at ebay's regulations, they frown on this as well.
I didn't know that you would so so sensitive about the subject of "sniping". For all those that either snipe, or desire to snipe, my apologies. I must have touched on the conscience and that can be a rather risky thing to do.
To state emphatically ... snipers are not bad people. They are like you and me and walk on two feet as well and are capable of rational thought.
There, I should hope that I placed a bandage on the open wound of snipers!
(by the way, my wife is falling over laughing at the moment!)
To end it all, I just in fair play, that's all.
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 04, 2009 04:28 PM
Winbert ...
I'm not sure if they, ebay as a whole, have an actual policy, but I wrote them with a question about this a few years back and they stated that they personally frown on it. However, I bet that if they wanted to, they could somehow stops sniping if they wanted to.
I don't know how it would work however, unless they could identify where the bid came from perhaps, or place things in the "ebay framework" that would identify sniping programs and automatically block them, like how a seller can block specific bidders based upon there ebay identity.
However, to stop the sniping would be to lower how much the item would sell for, and that would potentially lower ebays profits, so realisticly, they probably wouldn't outlaw it.
It all comes down to the dollar in the end.
By the way, I didn't really understand where you were going with your replies earlier in this series of posts, but I do appreciate your efforts Winbert. If you'd like, could you e-mail me with what you were saying as I would like to understand where your coming from.
I do agree with the others though. Quite frankly, you can always outrageously bid on the item to secure that you win it, (which works unless, the auction has a program working on it that will bring up the last bidder to one dollar less than you bid.
With all it's frustrations, I still like ebay. I wouldn't have the collection (in large part) that I have today without ebay. I'm glad it's there.
All the best to everybody!
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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