8mm Forum: Faded or Red?

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Topic: Faded or Red?

Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted July 15, 2013 03:12 PM

I see quite a lot of Eastman prints advertised as Faded, have the colours faded, or has the film turned to Cranberry Red?
The reason I ask is that I was watching a documentary about the film '7 Men from Now', starring Randolph Scott, I don't know what filmstock was used, but the colours had faded (pale), and the documentary was about restoring the film to its former glory.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 15, 2013 03:56 PM

"Faded" and "red" are really the same thing. The Cyan (Bluish) dye layer gradually disappears from Eastman prints and all you have left are the Magenta and yellow layers. Time scale varies, anything from 10 to 25 years I would guess.
This does not happen at all with Kodachrome camera reversal film, and Agfa prints so far seem immune to any fading.
Unfortunately the vast majority of super 8 prints from the 1970's and early 80's were printed on the dreaded Eastman stock and have all faded to red. That includes nearly all the 400ft studio digests that most collectors have a lot of, plus most color features and airline optical sound prints of that period [Frown]

On the plus side it is relatively easy to restore or re-enhance the cyan layer on faded Eastman prints using digital techniques, and this is what a lot of film restoration is all about. Technicolor prints do not fade, and of course if you have the Technicolor black and white separation camera negatives you essentially have a permanent record of a Technicolor film. One reason why the old Technicolor films look so brilliant on DVD, even after 70 years. [Smile]

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted July 15, 2013 04:30 PM

Thank you Paul.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 16, 2013 04:33 AM

Some of my early Eastman 16mm features have faded to pure pink, none of them are red. Is this the British climate?

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Maurice

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted July 16, 2013 05:41 AM

It's a real shame, all those prints that have been lost. I only have a couple Maurice, but they have turned red rather than pink, but I have seen several Eastman prints offered that were described as pink. I think I read somewhere that Kodak were aware of the problem in the 1950s, why didn't they do something about it. The first I knew about colour change was in the pages of Movie Maker, where either the director or producer of Jaws had noticed that the blue sea was notably less blue after only 5 years.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 16, 2013 05:50 AM

Kodak blamed some labs for cutting corners and not processing to their instructions. Were they trying to blame someone else? In the sixties a film would "go the rounds" for a few months and then the badly maintained copies would be processed for their silver content.

Kodak obviously had no interest in ensuring that the prints lasted past their "show by" date.

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Maurice

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Luis Caramelo
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Funchal
Registered: Feb 2011

posted July 16, 2013 06:44 AM

hi!that,s true your comments,but there,s also some kodak estman
who holds the color more time,than others,and like i use to say
the climatic conditions can influence in certain way,i do still gpt digets from;ken films,universal,metro,the colors still o.k
no fade at all,and like i said before in another posts,i keep all my prints incluing my full lenghts in the cool,,,after some researches,i have been read,the best way to prolong life of color films,it,s storage them in the cool place.ex,frezer,frigde
some fellas may don,t have these conditions,but put them in a cooler place is possible.or in a closet dark with dry fresh air.

regards:
luis caramelo

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted July 16, 2013 01:50 PM

Luis, you have it "sussed" it, that is it in a nutshell, well done that man. Cool is the word, ventilated cans, we can't really do more
as collectors, but Luis has said what is the correct proceedure.

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Lee Bombard
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Santa Clarita, CA, USA
Registered: May 2013

posted July 16, 2013 07:31 PM

The key in film preservation is to try to achieve constants in both temperature and humidity. Not too dry (film will crack) and not to damp (mold and mildew). It's better to keep a film in a warmer (within reason) constant temperature and humidity rather than a variable temperature that fluctuates with highs and lows. That's why films that have spent decades in garages or sheds that bake in the summer and freeze in the winter are fade and vinegar time bombs.

Also - if you keep your film in a freezer or colder environment like a refrigerator be mindful of not simply pulling a print out of a freezer into room temperature without acclimating it with incremental warming and then incremental cooling back to the cold. It's these sudden 35 degrees to 75 degrees that will kill a film...

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Luis Caramelo
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Funchal
Registered: Feb 2011

posted July 17, 2013 10:18 AM

hi!lee,i never thought in take a film from the cool,and run it!

i sugest to all you red this site

FILM FOREVER,CHAPTER 8

BEST
LUIS CARAMELO

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Luis Caramelo
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Funchal
Registered: Feb 2011

posted July 17, 2013 10:19 AM

hi!lee,i never thought in take a film from the cool,and run it!

i sugest to all you red this site

FILM FOREVER,CHAPTER 8

BEST
LUIS CARAMELO

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