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Author Topic: Eumig, Austria or Italy?
Robert Crewdson
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 - posted July 23, 2013 10:14 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I read on another thread that the Eumig S940 was the last Super 8 projector designed by the technicians in Austria. I remember the sadness when I read that Eumig had gone into liquidation. Projectors continued to be manufactured in Italy under the Eumig name. Were any designed in Italy, or were they just assembling projectors that had already been designed?

Just looked at Wikipedia, but they make no mention of the Italy connection.

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Maurice Leakey
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 - posted July 23, 2013 10:39 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert
Are you thinking of Bauer projectors which were latterly built in Italy by their Silma plant?
After Eumig's disaster with Polavision things were never the same and in 1981 they closed down their factories in Austria.

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Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted July 23, 2013 10:57 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All I know is that in Belgium Eumig and Silma had the same importator. Does that mean the two makes had another link ?

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Dominique

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Robert Crewdson
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 - posted July 23, 2013 11:51 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice, it is such a long time ago, but I did think production moved to Italy, and thinking at the time it will be a badge only, not a real Eumig.

Was Polavision like a tape that you showed on a monitor?

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Maurice Leakey
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 - posted July 23, 2013 12:41 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Polavision, an instant movie stock, was revealed on 26 April 1977. The cassette held Polavision Phototape Type 608 which was silent, there was no provision for sound.

After being exposed in the Polavision camera a cartridge with 40ft (12 m) of movie film identical to the Super 8 format was inserted into a player. Inside, the film was automatically processed within 90 seconds, during rewind. The necessary chemicals were contained in small tanks inside the cartridge.

The system was initially meant to be made by Bell & Howell but then actually made by Eumig of Austria.

The "projector" was like a 12" television set and it all arrived in the shops in 1978.

But the equipment sat on dealers' shelves. In early 1979 only 1000 units had been sold in Germany. It could not meet its potential market, the family home movie-maker. It quickly disappeared from view, the maker's, Eumig, had counted on at least 150,000 sets annually.

All in all, Polavision turned out to be an expensive party game and ruined Eumig.

Thanks to Jurgen Lossau.

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Maurice

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted July 23, 2013 01:51 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Polavision was doomed from its inception for one simple reason - the films could not be projected on a big screen with a regular movie projector. Anyone of us could have told Polaroid that, if they had bothered to do some marketing research first before investing a few hundred million dollars. I had no idea that Bell& Howell were first selected to manufacture the Polavision equipment. Sounds like their marketing people had the right reading on 'instant movies".

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted July 23, 2013 02:16 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sad end for Eumig. It was a good company.

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Dominique

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted July 23, 2013 02:44 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of my friends where I worked in 1979, actually purchased a Polavision system and demonstrated it in work one day. The film was an additive color system, similar to the early Dufaycolor system, and it resulted in a very dense color image requiring extremely bright projection - thus the reason for the small TV screen. But, the 12 inch wide picture viewer quality was really a joke, compared with the superb quality that people were getting with Kodachrome 2 projected on a big screen. I'm sure Kodak lost no sleep at all on this one.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Steve Klare
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 - posted July 23, 2013 02:53 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Polaroid's marketing people begged Dr. Land to give up on Polavision. They said at the time that the home movie market accounted for something like 3% of the entire photography market and had he succeeded in taking all of it it still wouldn't have been worth what was invested in it.

Then again in the late 70s video cameras (not "camcorders", you dragged along your VCR on a shoulder strap: "cam" and "corder" were still seperate things.) were coming out and what home movie market there was was about to dry up anyway.

-just because you're a visionary, doesn't mean you always see very well. It was a personal quest, not a business plan.

I just sent a Super-8 cartridge off to Dwayne's 8 months after I started it.

-I guess I was never meant for instant movies!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted July 23, 2013 03:04 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, it sounds like Dr. Land wanted to prove that instant movies could be done, and ignored the marketing forecasts. What is suprising is that Eumig bought into this system, after all Eumig more than anyone had their pulse on the home movie market.
I remember the first video systems very well. A camera the size of an Encylopedia, connected to a video tape recorder on a separate rolling carrier! When the Sony 8mm cassette camera came out, it was truly revolutionary.

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Steve Klare
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 - posted July 23, 2013 03:15 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul,

I guess when Dr. Edwin land shows up on your doorstep selling a revolutionary idea people listen.

Anybody who was the industry at that point had to know that home video technology was up and coming and was probably looking to get in on the ground floor of the technology that was "going to save their industry."

Elmo survived: they decided to take their technology and make other kinds of projectors. They still do.

Eumig took a bold step and suffered for it.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Robert Crewdson
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 - posted July 23, 2013 04:00 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice Advert Paul. I couldn't see any future for it at the time, not only because of the small screen, but there wouldn't have been any pre-recorded films to purchase.
I wonder if any of the films have survived and if they are still playable. I remember the Polaroid Land camera of the 60s, when you peeled off a backing paper the print was wet. I found that after about 10 years the image had almost faded away, I had to re-photograph them, and printed them at home. I managed to get them back to roughly what they originally were.

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted July 23, 2013 04:03 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Polavision lies right alongside Pathescope Duplex 4.75mm as the biggest boondoggle in home movie history. Although one suspects that the financial cost to Polaroid was a few orders of magnitude greater than that of Pathescope. Both systems were seen by their inventors as being the answer to imminent marketing threats. For Pathescope, Duplex was seen as the answer to the tidal wave of double 8mm popularity. For Polaroid, Polavision was to be the choice over amateur video tape recording. Both systems were overwhelmed by the march of technology.
Robert, you can find Polavision clips on YouTube. I have read of people taking old Polavsison cassetes apart and running the film through a super 8 projector - with a tiny screen of course. You can also get old Polavision cassettes converted to DVD.

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Adrian Winchester
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 - posted July 23, 2013 06:49 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As someone who knew nothing about Polavision before reading this very educational thread, I'm shocked to hear that this disaster was an important factor in the end of Eumig. No douby in those days you could send off a Super 8 cartridge for devloping and get it back very quickly, so surely the instant aspect wasn't a massive incentive to buy it. The shorter footage meant that you were only getting 2 mins 40 seconds and this must have made it all the more irritating that you couldn't put films on longer reels or do any editing. Can anyone recall how the cost of the cartridges compared to (e.g.) a cartridge of Kodachrome.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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 - posted July 23, 2013 06:58 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
The sad thing is how many folks invested in this technology, only
to find their films lost.

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted July 23, 2013 07:01 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Your right Adrian, Polavision offered absolutely nothing for the serious (or not so serious) moviemaker. In fact it came with a whole set of big negatives- very poor picture quality being the most serious, no editing, no projection etc. Absolutely no match for Kodachrome which everyone was using. It is truly astonishing that the whole exercise was ever allowed to get into full scale production without significant test marketing. Companies are only allowed to make this kind of major blunder once, and Polaroid and Eumig never recovered.
Looking at the AD above, a cartridge of Polavision was $7.50.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Hugh Thompson Scott
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 - posted July 23, 2013 07:10 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
That's how Sony came through the back door Paul, with their Video 8mm, in aview to finish the 8mm brigade, down the line.

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Steve Klare
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 - posted July 23, 2013 07:11 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back around that time a local department store had sales every couple of months where a cart of K-40 with a processing mailer was a little less than 5 bucks.

-A bargain compared to $7.50!

Mom and Dad never minded the bottom shelf of the 'fridge becoming full of yellow boxes! (Kinda liked it myself!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Maurice Leakey
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 - posted July 24, 2013 02:47 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Both Dr. Land and Eumig had their heads in the sand for far too long. In 1973 Kodak announced the introduction of Super 8 Kodachrome pre-striped stock, and sound cameras soon were in abundance.

Why did it take four years (1977) for Polavision to be announced? And silent, at that. What were they thinking of. I understand that Dr. Land had also been considering adding sound to Polavision.

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Maurice

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Lee Mannering
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 - posted July 24, 2013 04:44 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I’ve still got my Polavision the camera and some films in the fridge all of which work. You’ll often read people banging on about the films blistering but this is due to storage in excessive heat and all my old films from the latter part of the 1970’s are still fine and I watch them. A bit of history.. I placed my order for the Polavision outfit from what was then my local Dixons and it was the first one to leave the store with only one film as they were in short supply to start with. I tied all the boxes on the back of my moped (quite a sight) and trundled it home. I actually got the system primarily to do test shots before shooting for real on Super 8 Kodak for drama films and it was a handy and unique tool back then which I liked using particularly for more serious filming project test shots. The emulsion is very dense so the system was a little limited to the small screen of the projection unit. Video was well underway shortly after and that was the death of Polavision. Re Eumig projectors, I’m sure we all know the late machines were re badged Italian small projectors which even turned up with the Fumeo name on let alone Eumig and a bit of a sad end for Eumig.

Polavision has a following here in the UK and you will often find collectors hunting kit and advertising material for collections. Exposed films are sought sometimes containing priceless material and I’ve seen some unique shots from collectors like Roman Polanksi captured on Polavision when he rushed into the UK, the tube Jubilee line opening and even the opening of Empire Strikes Back all captured by amateur film makers on the system. You will gather I have a soft spot for Polavision and so do quite a few other collectors as daft as it can seem.

Top tip! If you ever decide to buy a Polavision player beware as they suffer the same fate as the Elmo GS1200 in that the small drive gears within crack and eventually split. The MK1 players were brown and the MK2 were black with the black type being a poor quality build in some areas. The black players seem to suffer more from cracked drive gearing perhaps as the result of a production cost cutting and you tend to see these for sale much more than the brown model.

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Robert Crewdson
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From: UK
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 - posted July 24, 2013 07:12 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adrian, I think in those days the average time for developing Kodachrome was 7-10 days, depending on the time of year. The staff at Hemel Hempstead used to project each film, and there were complaints from some workers that when they went on holiday, they had seen it all before, via someone else's film.

Lee, maybe that was where I got mixed up with Italy.

slightly off subject now, but my prefered film was Perutz; in the later years I more often used Agfa Moviechrome, because A/ both 40 and 160 ASA were process paid, and B/ they were identical when spliced together; I spent a lot of time filming interiors of cathedrals.

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