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Author Topic: New Section For Digital?
Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 03, 2015 01:15 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I suppose if we are either Purists or Puritans, maybe it's just in the context of this forum and the conventions.

If I went to a presentation at work tomorrow, I'd be more shocked than the rest of the audience if the presenter dimmed the lights and lit up a real movie projector (mostly because I'd catch on much faster...)

-of course I'd have to talk to the guy afterwards.

Some of the brethren will not go out to a movie if it's not 35 or 70mm. That's their choice: I can't go that way. It's something I'd miss too much.

We showed projected video exactly once at CineSea. It was Jean-Marc Toussaint's "Super-8 Madness" so it was worthy of an exception.

By definition, CineSea is a film place, so it had to be an exception: same here.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted August 03, 2015 01:20 PM      Profile for Paul Barker   Email Paul Barker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i agree Terry. but sadly not many here want even to embrace it. they still see it as a threat. as the old saying goes THERES NOWT SO QUEER AS FOLK.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted August 03, 2015 01:53 PM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well the sub title for General Yak says it clearly "Forum for yakking about random non-film topics (video included). " but perhaps the word video should be replaced with digital

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted August 03, 2015 05:49 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"General Yak" can cover anything from Bagpipes to Baked Potatoes...oh! ...even digital. [Wink] Its worked alright in the past [Wink]

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Clyde Miles
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 205
From: Bromsgrove, UK
Registered: Nov 2013


 - posted August 03, 2015 06:01 PM      Profile for Clyde Miles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
won't be adding any digital to my screenings, just my penny worth

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted August 03, 2015 07:48 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I`ll admit I`m not really sure why there seems to be, well it feels/sounds a bit like panic re film or digital. Its not an either or thing anyway. They go so well together.

Most people on here who mention digital are long term members fully grounded in film, and still are enjoying it, like myself. But who are enjoying the fantastic film watching opportunities LCD projection etc offers us now.

It wasn`t a bad idea to suggest a digital zone if you will, but Yak does very well too.

Picture qaulity now using digital is stunning, I find it very filmic via LCD projection and not at all sterile etc myself. But opinions vary of course.

I borrowed my sons high end NEC semi instalation LCD projector tonight, and although just WXGA and 4000 contrast it has image qaulities that are way beyond anything I`ve seen, and popping a few Blu Rays on tonight it looks so good you can`t imagine.

But its not film. For me watching real film is about the faddling on, the collecting, the feeling, the rewinding etc.

If all of that does it for you, then it does.

This is still a film forum, but I think some of us also want to chat about, and share whats also new, and interesting in the whole film arena Whether digital things, memorabilia, 4K etc, you name it, and I think it all adds to the forum and doesn`t threaten anything that this smashing little forum offers.

It may even be keeping the numbers up a bit.

Best Mark.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 03, 2015 08:40 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, and others

I think when we are setting up a forum for Vinyl collectors, we are not expecting there will be section for CD.

They are both about the same, i.e to enjoy the music, but they are different format. And I stand on my previous opinion that I am collecting super 8mm because my love to the format NOT to the picture quality.

--------------------
Winbert

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted August 03, 2015 09:14 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Over the different topics of film vs digital I have to say it has been interesting to see the denominations forming....

Bill

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 05:11 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Winbert, a Vinyl and CD analogy is quite good here in the sense that both are different, and enjoyed for different and the same reasons and both also sit side by side and are each enjoyed for what they offer. they compliment each other.

I remember listening to a radio show and they had 3 members of a well known long established band on, who I forget the name of , and the idea was to listen to various types of music media etc.

They played segments from 3 different tracks, one CD, one on Vinyl, and one MP3, and on each set of 3 the band members decided which one they thought sounded the best and nicest overall.

Anyway they playeed the 3 clips of all the 3 tracks mixed in with a bit of chatting etc until they then looked at what they all chose.

They had all 3 chosen the same media type track on each of the 3 tunes/songs etc as it happens, that they thought was nicest.

They all assumed they had picked the Vinyl, or possibly maybe even the CD, but when it came to it they had all chosen the MP3 from each one of the tracks.

They had all liked the most compressed, digital or if you like most bits missing media, they thought had the overall nicest sound to all to thier ears.

It was an interesting show.

Best Mark.

PS I still collect vinyl ( its on a surge at the moment ), even odd new ones, though I notice now most new vinyl comes with a free digital download code. Good example how various formats work well together.

But my favourite music is when I sit down with my youngest son on his laptop and we watch/listen to all sorts of music, pop, rock, classic, old, new, obscure etc on youtube, great fun and probably the least and most varying qaulity of the lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4BUkOjxuZo

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted August 04, 2015 07:22 AM      Profile for Dave Groves     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was always under the impression that folk posting on this forum were either current film users or former film users who had added digital media to their interests or even moved totally over to it. Their names are familiar to us all and I'd be sorry if our dedicated isolationism drove them away. I don't feel their postings are any intrusion, in fact I've found some very helpful. I look on the listings and choose what I want to read. It works quite well. Wonder how many here are over 60 and how the forum will look in ten years time with age taking it's toll of both hardware and the aging prints to play on them. I guess few folk in passing will see the title and deliberately choose to post digital only info. I was perfectly happy with the present set up and sorry this us and them thing has appeared.

--------------------
Dave

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 10:00 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, I am talking about the nature of a forum. If we set up a vinyl collectors forum than we are talking vinyls as well as a CD collectors forum we are talking CDs. If we set up a music forum, we can talk any format, regardless Vinyl, CD, MP3 or live music.

Now, this 8mm forum NOT a film forum, so we talk 8mm.

As simple as that.

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 10:49 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Crikey! Now I'm confused!?

What can we talk about??? Can we talk about both Standard 8 and Super 8? Because that new "fancy-dan" Super 8 will never last you know as a format, what with it's tiny sprocket holes and lack of a proper camera gate. [Wink] [Big Grin]

Sorry guys, just kidding. Maybe we all need a break from this topic for a while. [Roll Eyes] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 11:42 AM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
So, with the past couple of posts from yesterday, I'm hearing the priority is the "format" and not the "picture quality" (!) -- and now it's "NOT a film forum"?

I'm confused, too!! 😃

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 12:13 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We need roughly a five year break from this topic. About five years ago we had basically the same debate and reached the same conclusion.

We settled again on Page 1 of this thread, so we are good to go until 2020.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted August 04, 2015 12:43 PM      Profile for Paul Barker   Email Paul Barker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
but there has been much change from 5 years ago.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 12:43 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, I second that motion...

Paul, seems some here don't want to discuss the evolvement, so maybe we are in the wrong place here.

I love this group of film guys n' girls and wouldn't want to upset that, especially the sense of humour.

[Smile]

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Mark Silvester
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: England
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 04, 2015 12:49 PM      Profile for Mark Silvester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lol!...Thank goodness we have the "general Yak" section as previously stated...all posts have a place on this forum - which is great!As it should be.

Digital interest can be posted in this section "general Yak" as it says..so what is the problem?

The rest is all devoted to not just 8mm...but also 16mm...9.5mm..so plenty of areas for all.

I think it is best to draw a line under this now..c'mon. The tiny thread in "Yak" about digital is hardly going to change the "world" of every "pure film" enthusiast - nothing to be scared about. It is all of an interest and good conversation.

Best

Mark [Smile]

--------------------
Mark Silvester

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 12:51 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm off to watch a movie...

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted August 04, 2015 01:14 PM      Profile for Paul Barker   Email Paul Barker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark. some common sense spoken there.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 01:18 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Roughly 5 years ago somebody who made it his mission to enlighten us poor backward folk showed up here to tell us the era of film was over and our next great step was to join him watching DVDs.

His main idea was that the BFCC needed to shift emphasis to accommodate video as well as film.

(It did not go over well at all...)

He was actually kind of fun to have around for a couple of days: called the stuff we wind on reels "film tape".

(I believe his closing comment when he returned to his own forum was that we could all **** ourselves. What a nice man!)

So once again we find ourselves having this exact same discussion, so nothing important has changed in five years.

-see ya in 2020.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 01:28 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No John, as far as I know this is NOT a film forum. This is 8mm forum as seen by its name (with the development to 16mm and 9.5mm later on).

We are here because of the film format, and then we talk the projector as the main machine to play this format. Sometimes we also discuss about the camera and blank film...again on 8mm format. While discussing about this format, we then talk about the film but yet the films must be on 8mm format (see our review section).

So this forum is indeed dedicated to the format, and we have to admit that.

If this is about the quality of the picture then we are not showing/screenshoting our faded or scratchy prints.

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 01:58 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, you're one of the most sensible blokes here and with a truly great sense of humour.

If I've ever come across as being a "digital advocate", that is because, well, I can be. But with due caution.

I'm not sure who you are referring too 5 years ago, but I'll have a look back. No one likes a "know it all".

Certainly, amateur and professional status can make a big difference.

In my own world, things move so fast that I think I can never keep up; and I don't mean artistically, just financially which is a shame.

As we all know here, in the last few years, film projection has basically finished.

Only a couple of months ago a dear friend of mine, a cameraman I have known and respected for may years, informed me that his a son had lost his job as a projectionist.

This, despite training in the latest digital and IMAX formats.

He is only young and with a new family.

I wonder if we all feel a massive loss here that we can't explain.

Perhaps the loss of "film" is going deeper than just our own feelings here on the forum.

Maybe that is why such varied passions are arising?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 04, 2015 02:18 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't say who it was. Won't stop you from searching for it though.

Let's look at this way. What if you were some wildlife official somewhere. Let's say you were put in charge of an endangered species. Would you give it a refuge, or just dump it in with all the other animals?

I have a gift for the folks that want a video-cinema forum:

Here's TEN of 'em:

Home Theater Forums

Home Theater Shack

Audioholics

Anandtech

Home Media Magazine

Best Buy

Avs Forum

Av Forum (No "S")

Home Cinema Banter

What HiFi

They weren't even that hard to find: ten minutes tops! There were pages and pages of others in Google I never opened.

We'd have a snowball's chance of getting a sprocketed film section on any of these, but they are all available to the video enthusiast.

Choose one, choose 'em all: leave this forum alone!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted August 04, 2015 02:48 PM      Profile for Paul Barker   Email Paul Barker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve. nobody is trying to take anything away, or take over this forum in another format. but as we have seen, there are many on here who like both film and digital projection.are they really a danger or a threato this forum. i view this site because i have a fondness for 8 and 16mm. even though i do not collect it anymore, for reasons i have stated in the past. but i still like to see and hear comments etc for those that still do.

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Mark Silvester
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: England
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 04, 2015 02:57 PM      Profile for Mark Silvester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Steve/Winbert

no-one is attacking the purity of 8mm film collectors on this forum. I have collected since 1973, 8mm and then moved toward 16mm and managed to own nearly every title under the sun - but I also moved into the digital age. I love the tactile 8mm - which I still have and dabble in - but I also move "sideways"..with the other stuff. I essentially - always like the "movie" presentation with friends/family gathered...watching a show. Adverts, trailers - ice creams.. the whole she-bang. That is me! Not insular but catering to my audience..and I still have 8mm and use it regularly. (Thanks to Mark Todd).

The general "Yak" thread again is emphasised...a place to post about general stuff and video/digital.If I am accurate this tiny place to post has been here for quite a while - a couple of years, and we post there/here - is there anything wrong with that? I don't think so...it complements and enhances the interest.

It is obviously of interest to members who like me have collected for decades - 8mm wise and still do - but "Yak" is a tiny ..almost mini thread to post on other subjects around movies/film..ANYTHING in general connected to it.

So let us embrace this forum - Brad Miller and Doug have done a good job - But they are fair and consistant - so I think general "yak" is a good place to post..it is good guys..it can all exist..now lets all go and have a beer...

let us just keep the posts within their own "forum" framework...no one asks anyone to respond to a post in "Yak"..they do it because they want to.

It is as used to be said by the late Bob Hoskins in the u.k. BT adverts.."Good to Talk".

Mark
[Smile]

--------------------
Mark Silvester

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