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Topic: New Section For Digital?
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted August 04, 2015 04:34 PM
I am, as I nearly always am, with Steve on this one. He lists just a handful of the links that are available for all things digital,projection very much included.
It's far more difficult for people like Mark I would have thought, to dedicate his digital posts where they are appreciated the most and his knowledge on the subject be reached to a wider audience, as he genuinely has a working interest still to this day in both film and digital projection. So I can perfectly understand why this forum is the perfect place for him still.
For others though, especially those who just appear hell bent on just disrespecting any of the film gauges and its present day users in this era, while waxing lyrical on the benefits and superiority of screening digitally, then I honestly cannot understand what would motivate a person to post here?
This isn't the most technical or knowledgeable arena for digital technology posts as it Simply doesn't have the member numbers that some of the very popular digital AV forums have.
When I was a past user of film and solely a new and enthusiastic user of digital projection and software, never once did I think a film forum would have been the very best place to talk and research all of the latest digital products and releases.
I purchased "What Home Cinema", "Home Cinema Choice", "What Hi Fi & Home Video" etc etc.I then went on either their forums or similar and found thousands of useful posts and links to assist me with my new venture.
We have some truly super knowledgeable guys on here for all things AV be it film or video. People like Rob for instance who has no end of experience and knowledge with both subjects,but ultimately there is a wider audience to be reached than the one that is here by using a dedicated digital forum and without disrespecting those that use this forum for what it was first and foremost primarily intended for.
Surely for those who no longer have any interest or passion for real film, Steve's recommendations and others offer a better service and a more appreciative audience for their interests.
-------------------- "C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted August 04, 2015 06:49 PM
I like film and I like digital (not for the same reasons, and not usually at the same time). They both have their place and tremendous advantages AND disadvantages. This forum has been a tremendous asset and help to many of us because of the unique hobbyists who "live" here. So I agree with Steve's excellent comments and Doug's decision to not open a new section, although renaming the "General Yak" subheading to specifically state "(including digital video)" might not be a bad idea.
So thank you all for helping make this hobby even better and more fun. And I don't mind the occasional video comment because, let's face it, there are just some things you can't do with film. However, like you, handling and running film is just wonderful and fussy fun. So, when we open our home for friends to join us, the biggest efforts are always for FILM-based nights (I have to borrow or rent to do video, so that's rare) because there are just some great old-time things that don't work as well on video - Laurel & Hardy, Technicolor (wish I could afford more of that), etc. And what's more fun than the group dynamic of enjoying it together?
So thanks for keeping the main thing the main thing, and kudos as always to our host Brad and to Doug for moderating as well.
In this age of all-digital technology, getting others to appreciate our hobby is more important, more unique, and therefore more fun than ever.
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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler
Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted August 04, 2015 06:51 PM
With all due respect, I don't see how a handful of digital-related responses in the General Yak section constitutes disrespect -- and I don't see anyone hellbent on disrespecting the film gauges. What I see are some long-time film collectors (which includes me) expanding their screening/projecting options with digital, pure and simple. However, I'm not dumping my Super 8/16 mm films and, in fact, have purchased some Super 8/16mm films just this year.
In my 40-plus of film collecting, I have always strived to obtain the best print and sound quality possible. I'm simply happy that technology has advanced to the point to enable me to achieve that print and sound quality on a consistent basis. (The operative word being "consistent.") Call me crazy, but isn't that ultimately a good thing?
I'm not aware (or can't remember!) what happened five years ago on this forum, but I'd hate to think that the film hobby has become so fragile and/or so insular that something that is ultimately a good thing, like the explosion of available, but optional, screening options (the discussion of which is legitimately confined to the General Yak section) is somehow viewed as anxiety-producing (?).
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted August 04, 2015 07:21 PM
John, I have much respect and regard for all of your postings on here, but just as Dominique pointed out and quoted on here another members comments recently, there has of course been been plenty of disrespectful comments spoken of the Super 8mm guage and film in general on here lately.
Of course there have been statements by individuals on here of the huge advantages of Video over film for projection purposes and as a collecting medium.
If you like, I will trawl through examples of such, but if you honestly think there has been no derogatory comments or disrespect shown recently towards film and it's collectors among all of this digital chat John, then I'm sorry but as Julie Andrews once famously said... "you can't see beyond the end of your nose" Im afraid.
For me personally, I don't care. As much as my true passion lies with film, I love all quality projected images and appreciate the machines Cine or Digital that can do so.
But for others who don't care one Iota for digital media, then I equally can understand how they would be upset by this obvious apparent disrespect for film and it's collectors, especially on a film forum.
-------------------- "C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Mark Todd
Film God
Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted August 04, 2015 07:38 PM
I`m not sure whats happened now John, to have this flurry going on. I`m at a loss.
I`m still in to film as well, but hands up I love the qaulity and choice of digital we now have as well. And the afforablity etc. We all know the pros and cons of both things.
As we keep saying as well, the two go together so well. If anyone wants to do both ?
Having digital also allows you to be a bit more cautious, and longer term film wise keeping away from the various rip off merchants we all come accross in film, rather than jumping compulsively in, to be burned ( again and again ).
All of that sort of thing does far more harm to the film hobby than a few bit of interest non film posts on here.
Also we have to face up to it, that new product in real film is now almost over. CHC are doing well if they break even, even !!! They often don`t.
Last time I bought a new super 8 film was about 4 years ago,only a trailer as well.
Getting a bit restrictive or protectionist is more likely to reduce membership on here.
No one has said dump " your " films and " go " digital or anything like that, or that anyone " must " do digital either.
Its all free choice, and what people fancy, and I think the best thing we can do for the forum is let the whole issue go, be tollerant of whatever anyone wants to say or share or ask about completely.
Laurence Oliver asks in Marathon Man. " Is it safe "
I`m sure it is.
Best Mark.
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David C. Lucidi
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 127
From: Glenolden, PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted August 08, 2015 04:18 PM
I don't post here as much as other film forums, but I have to say, it's somewhat ridiculous seeing some of these people posting, and trying to stir up emotions. Making arguments that contain comments like "fear", "very sad", etc., are both immature and somewhat disrespectful to the general basics of what this forum is about.
Last time I checked, it's called 8mm forum, with a sub-division for 16mm and 9.5mm. In other words, FILM. I can 99.9% guarantee that this forum would ALSO welcome 35mm chat, except that their is already a separate forum for that, from the same guy who started this forum (Brad Miller). 95% of this forum consists of discussing things like FILM projector repairs, FILM sales (or wants), FILM restoration (i.e., splicing, replacement footage, repair of torn sprockets, etc.). It also deals with other aspects of FILM usage, such as replacement parts (projectors, reels, lenses, bulbs), etc. ALL of the film-related forums discuss these topics.
Then there is the 'General Yak', which is essentially any topic you want, minus religion and politics. That includes letting those that desire it, bring up the occasional digital discussion/question/comparison, etc.
And now, now a small group complain that is not enough? Oh the humanity, we are suddenly not a 'one size fits all forum' because a handful of members can't get their sub-forum. Perish the thought! How inconsiderate of us to not accommodate your non-film request! Sheesh.
Tell me WHY it is, that because a SMALL handful of people on here want to add a sub-forum about digital projection (and then whine whine WHINE about it when the majority of members, AND moderator, say no)....tell me WHY we have to listen to this nonsense? Don't like what this forum offers? Here's a tip -- LEAVE and find another forum! Steve was kind enough to post 10 other choices. But don't come into a forum that is all about film, AND allows you a 'general' forum for your other discussion needs, and THEN expect that your whining is going to get you your way. As the moderator already said, the answer is no. Constantly posting about how outdated people are, how 'sad' it is, etc. just shows how immature you really are when you don't get your way. Grow up!
You already have a General Yak to post as MUCH as you want about digital topics. If that isn't enough, the log-out button is in the upper left hand corner next to your name. Remember, no one is forcing you to be here...if you don't like the content and the options offered, oh well.
BTW, how many digital forums have separate forums for 8mm, 16mm, and 35mm?
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Mark Todd
Film God
Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted August 09, 2015 05:30 AM
I`m still not getting why there was any issue. But I understand the fear of films decline if you really love it, but then you keep that going yourself.
You go on any forum, even with a fairly narrow interest people talk about allsorts of things. And things that have moved on relating to that as well etc.
People in to old valve radio,s etc for instance, talk about digital radio and modern radios etc. And have both.
People who talked or discussed digital here are all still real filmy like myself, or to a much lesser extent were filmie big time, but still love this forum and have a great fondness for real film.
No-one has swooped in from the outside and knocked cine etc.
Surely from a digital starting point is where we might hope for the odd convert, or part interested party and member here like Max recently.
Nothing can beat the fun of projecting a nice big real film image and the fun of the cin`e machines etc. But like wise sharing a nice big digital image is great fun too.
Maybe the future of film hanging on is people who start digital, and then add a little cine as well.
As has been said the more we discuss, the more people will trip over this forum, and who knows.
Its sad if anyone leaves this great little spot, and I don`t think they needed to, and hope they return or still contribute here too.
There will be other cracking little forums out there too on other things I`m sure, but you`d have to be very lucky to find one for your interest like this one, and so friendly and nice as it is on here too.
Best Mark.
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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted August 16, 2015 09:27 AM
Oh dear Maurice, you do appear to have let the cat amongst the pigeons with your suggestion. It has raised a lot of issues and it saddens me to think that the result is that some members have left the forum. Personally, I have not read any examples of anyone denigrating those of us who still endeavour to collect and use cine projectors. As has been stated by many of us, we have had to embrace digital as there is no longer any other alternative if our hobby of Home cinema is to continue into the future. The bonus of digital is that it allows us to collect and display films that have never been available to us before and at such low prices. Film collecting is no longer the prerogative of the rich. Also, as Lee comments, younger generations are becoming increasingly curious about past formats and the forum can encourage this interest. I agree that there is no place on any part of this forum for comments which criticize or insult users of any format, but I have yet to come across any. I am sure that "General Yak" is the place for any digital inquiries and information. As an old 9.5mm fan, I well remember some of the comments published in Amateur Cine World and Movie Maker magazine letters column, by users of the new Super 8 gauges, how superior it was to 9.5mm and implying that we were out of date and should change to the latest Kodak wonder, often accompanied with other "unkind " comments!! Sadly there are always people like this. Increasingly these days from what I hear about things published on Face book and Twitter. I do hope that those members who have decided to leave will return and continue their valuable contributions. Ken Finch.
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