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Author Topic: New Section For Digital?
Mark Silvester
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: England
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 17, 2015 04:26 AM      Profile for Mark Silvester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree Mike it is about being flexible and just simply posting within the threads really.It is all of interest and as we and other have said - everything in it's place.

I started out in 8mm over 40 years ago...and I am sure Mike comes from that time too. I have loved film and still do but it is nice to discuss "sidewardly" elements if you like...as in digital projection. I had long discussions with Derek around this subject and right till he died he was very much of my frame of mind - "you can collect both".Or as I quote him "People dont' just go to work on Bike's anymore".. The problem comes when you have almost an obsessive "polarisation" either way hence the great need to stay within sections..simple...I say again this is in now way to detract from film...as most know how many titles I have had - still have a bit of 8mm to "fiddle" with, etc.

The point is these conversations are very relevant within this forum - it can direct and bring others into all aspects of the hobby. I also like the fact that there is a maturity and decency with people who post here. That is great.

I know where you are coming from to Andrew - I have a lot of respect for your posts and enthusiasm. It is good though to have this general yak section - the pure intelligent activity on this thread PROVES that.

Have a good day guys.

Mark

[Smile]

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Mark Silvester

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted August 17, 2015 04:35 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I can't disagree, nor would want to for anything written here Mark, I just hope Mike is correct in his predictions regarding a few of our very well respected and currently somewhat dissatisfied veteran forum members.

Here's hoping Mike. [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted August 17, 2015 04:49 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here you are fighting for your right to talk digital. And we are suppose to be the bad ones? It gets less and less friendly here and I feel bad that someone would not welcome a forum where we talk only film.

Guess the urge to post here get lessened every time I check.

And getting nasty because we call ourselves film lovers, that's just weird to me. You can call yourself movie lovers, since you don't care how the movie is projected. I call myself a film lover, because the magic feeling I get when projecting film. It's not there when I project a movie on video.

Don't think I'll reply to this anymore, just getting to nasty in here

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted August 17, 2015 04:57 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That would be sad, Vidar. Your posts are valuable as they focus on real film. Digital can be discussed everywhere, but film has not a lot of places of its own. Let's preserve this space mainly for film (and if digital is discussed it should be done without suggesting it is better than film).

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Dominique

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

- posted August 17, 2015 05:52 AM      Profile for Paul Barker   Email Paul Barker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
wrong Dominique wrong. what you suggest is to censor other peoples point of view.

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted August 17, 2015 06:03 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, just have to one more time ... Why not create one forum where you can talk about everything then? It's a specialised forum for film, not censorship. This is ridiculous and I resent being called disrepectful and arrogant, just because I love film. My comments on true film lovers shouldn't be an insult unless you're not a true film lover. No point, even if we get only a few members, we enjoy the atmosphere in our forum, it's friendly, not like here (I used to think just about everyone of you was a nice guy, reconsidering this now) ... Still can't believe you not see all the pro digital posings, is it only going out to me?

Now you can slam me all you want, I won't respond to anything more in this thread now

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted August 17, 2015 06:21 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, I can hardly understand why people take the trouble of making a profile and posting on a film forum if they prefer digital. By the way, you cannot discuss all the subjects on this forum, so in your vision, there is already a censorship. In my point of vue, it is to keep a nice exchange between members. Again, I have nothing against digital, nor discussion about it but there have been unnecessary denigrating messages against film(I quoted an example).

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Dominique

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003

- posted August 17, 2015 08:43 AM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow. Remember, it's only a hobby, not a religion that one is supposed to pledge allegiance to.

To my eyes, the overwhelming number of posts, even when mentioning digital, are from those film collectors, including me, who have incorporated digital into their screening pursuits. Not sure what is wrong with that? While I thoroughly enjoy what digital has added to my screening pursuits, I will always keep my films and purchase those films that interest me. But one section on the much larger forum where the word "digital" is breathed (that really only accounts for a very small percentage of the total posts) shouldn't be viewed as a threat by those in the hobby who seem to require a purist oath.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted August 17, 2015 09:13 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
John, the debate could, and would, just go on forever. Around and around in circles.
Dom and Vidar have said their view, You, Paul and others, theirs.

I really cannot see any point in even discussing this subject any longer. It just cannot come to any conclusion that will suit everyone.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003

- posted August 17, 2015 09:16 AM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Andrew, but I believe the forum members should determine that.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 17, 2015 09:20 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The words film and movie to me we're always interchangeable. They didn't represent any kind ownership or any other gauge or format.

I am curious to be a film lover do you have monogamous to one gauge for the rest of your life or can you have an mistress in 16mm as well or heavens forbid have second partner ( see very pc) stashed away called digital who does every thing for you that you only imagined but we're afraid to ask👄👄👄

Once we get this out of the way can decide the BIG issues like can you really be a film lover without making the proper commitment to her I.e a home cinema setting . Does watching your latest purchase on the back of a door or side of a fridge whilst eating a ham and pickle sandwich show TRUE LOVE!!!!!

Finally and this is the BIG one. When you build, steal or borrow to obtain your home cinema is it really compulsory to have curtains / motorised curtains and little pink auditorium lights which MUST be dimmed at the correct moment!!!

It remember being instructed at a Blackpool convention I couldn't have proper real authentic home cinema (not movie house) without the above. No wonder I strayed from the light or was it the projector beam?

Miss Digital was so compatible , easy and available how could I resist the temptation?

Well away to have a cup of tea I willflagellate myself with some super 8 later I would use a proper gauge like 16mm but costs to much.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 17, 2015 09:24 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken's comments about Amateur Cine World brought back memories of one of their most vitriolic photo journalist's. I think his name was Dennis Davis, not sure about that. The thing was that he absolutely hated 8mm films and took every opportunity to berate the guage. In his mind no 8mm films should have been allowed into the ACW Ten Best competition, only 16mm films were worthy enough. He made comments about 'these nasty little films", and I think he may have lost his job over it.
The point is that today the film community is pretty united, and all film gauges pretty well get the same level of respect. Maybe the so called 'common enemy' of digital cinema has produced this unity, but historically there have always been people that feel their chosen medium is superior to everyone else's. Why can't people get the simple fact that digital is neither superior nor inferior to film, it's just different. And vice versa.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 17, 2015 09:37 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't kid yourself Paul under every vintage 16mm collector there is a super 8 hater. Upto until the 1980s they always had a point in regards to print and availability of titles but once Derann started to release feature prints in a quality that have never been dreamed of they were blown out of the water. Added to that was 16mm hire prints virtually disappeared overnight so they were left with no new titles.

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014

- posted August 17, 2015 10:07 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
....if people come here to belittle film, then I would have to say I agree with Dom and Vidar on this one.

I don't mind digital talk, but only if it has to do with the 8mm process, that is, if someone posted here saying: "I would like to know how to transfer my 8mm home movies(or whatever) to digital because I am afraid that over the years I will loose the memories", then I feel it is perfectly valid.
However, if someone comes here to say Digital is 'better' than 'film' because the quality is, say, clearer...or whatever....then I guess that it is their opinion, but I think we should consider the conscience of others. Some people really believe(it seems) that in 300+ years from now, they will still have working film. I think even Derann may disagree. Time will tell i suppose...
I also think this applies in reverse, that is, we should respect the opinions of others, as long as they are not degrading.
This kind of argument is on every forum I've been on. On a pinball forum i belong too, people endless chatter about which authoring platform is better....and the argument has gone for years now. Some people like the arguing, others continue playing pinball...
I certainly will not continue about it because i've learned better, but thought others may like to know this info as well. I am going to watch 'Moan and Groan'(Rascals) with my kids right now [Smile]
Cheers,
Matt

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted August 17, 2015 10:47 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would certainly miss the regular contributions from Vidar and others if they decide not to post here any more, although respectfully this is the only film forum I will ever join or contribute to.

My interests span three film gauges and digital projection, however I rarely find much to discuss on the latter hobby wise (ie: insert disk, press play, watch movie) whereas even after so many years the hands-on aspects of real film projection and cine equipment maintenance still continue to give me great pleasure.

Kevin

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Steve Carter
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Apr 2015

- posted August 17, 2015 11:18 AM      Profile for Steve Carter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pinball Matt, I like playing Gorgar and Monster Bash Monsters of Rock...going off subject...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted August 17, 2015 11:53 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin's latest response just cements exactly what I highlighted about 2 or 3 pages ago.

We all (well at least most of us), can appreciate the glorious images thrown up at our screens using the latest digital HD PJ's, but the bottom line is, just as Kevin so eloquently points out,it just isn't much of a hobby, is it?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mark Silvester
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: England
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 17, 2015 12:03 PM      Profile for Mark Silvester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all,

not one person on this thread has denigrated film - we all love it..but we also like projecting digital that means "big screen home presentation"..- Vidar, you are wrong to make such assumptions...we are just expressing our individual opinions...I have been in this business 40 years how long you?..step up to the plate "..... and the old members will tell you I have.....why do you get so worked up..AND ANGRY ALL THE TIME over this subject.. We HAVE a right as film enthusiast to express our opinion...whats wrong with that?? Why don't you and others just focus on the "8mm" pages - your specific subject...why are you even commenting on digital (general Yak thread) if it is like the "devil incarnate" come..on....if anyone does not like this "quite simple" thread on General Yak...then don't post on it - "simples"...Believe it or not I work in mental health and have done for 16 years...lets us just leave it. Brad has been good enough to leave us "Gen Yak"...leave it at that... that's the place to post on these subjects...the rest can post within their relative subject threads...what wrong with that.

Enjoy your holidays...by the way Vidor I may meet up in Black ool as I am hoping to go...I will be wearing my ""bullet" proof vest Dave has kindly ordered me one! loL. [Cool]

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Mark Silvester

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted August 17, 2015 12:15 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For all those who keep on saying film has not been denigrated, I repost my message from the thread "Too Much Digital On The Forum" (8mm section) : This is the kind of message I would put in the category "denigrating films vs digital" (it doesn't matter who wrote it, I just take this as an example to make things clearer and I don't want-I do insist on that-to blame anyone) : "i love blu ray. i have several steelbook editions. after years of collecting 8mm and 16mm i am now able to watch favourite films in great great quality. no worries re damage scratches fade etc. and excellent price too.god knows it beats me some of the quality some people will endure on 8 and 16. but everyone to their own.gone are my days of recieving dodgy prints and spending a small fortune for the privledge. had enough of that thank you very much. some really nice artwork on steelbooks so i understand people wanting and collecting them.some fabulous titles available too."

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted August 17, 2015 12:35 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Your wasting your breath Dominique. It will just fall on deaf ears unfortunately and as said, there will be no resolution or unification with this one.

We all have different opinions on this one and as such, as said, whatever is said now on this topic has almost certainly already been said.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 17, 2015 12:43 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The irony is if Super 8 was the same price as a DVD that particularly contributor would actually choose Super 8 to buy. I think he was being enthusiastic about his DVD steel boxes (were he gets the storage space is beyond me) rather than scoring any points. However if some analyse and dissect every word then no doubt offence will be taken were none was implied or intended.

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015

- posted August 17, 2015 01:22 PM      Profile for Dave Groves     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really don't understand all this. I've noticed the odd digital entries. If it interests me I read it. If it doesn't I don't. If an entry on film interests me I read it. If it doesn't I pass over it. If someone rubishes film (and it rarely happens) for whatever reason I read it and come to my own conclusions. All of us from a film background have interests, opinions and ideas. On the film forums I've read letters about cars and joke entries (nothing to do with film) that made me laugh, and some I didn't understand at all because the writers were of USA backgrounds. I always thought it was about sharing a movie interest with humour and tolerance. Shame we've come almost to falling out. I liked things as they were, all sharing and adding our film and digital thoughts queries and discoveries. Long may it continue

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Dave

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted August 17, 2015 01:33 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doesn't all this argument back and forth just reinforce the original suggestion from Maurice for an additional section dedicated to digital? It seems to me to be a perfectly valid and sensible idea and surely it would put a stop to all the 'nastiness'. Personally I hope the moderators think again after seeing the strong opinions on this matter.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

- posted August 17, 2015 02:24 PM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just had a sit back from this topic, had a thought then laughed.

This forum doesn't need a digital section - it is all digital as it's on the internet a completely digital system.

PS I know this post is trite but I did laugh...

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 17, 2015 02:40 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it is better now for th two moderators to close (even delete) this post as it has gone non sense.

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Winbert

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