8mm Forum: Red or fading prints.

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Topic: Red or fading prints.

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted December 13, 2016 09:46 AM

Yes its that old bogey man again.

Do you buy red or fading prints ?
If Yes ... Why ? [Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 720
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted December 13, 2016 10:37 AM

A simple no from me. I can't enjoy a faded print, especially if there are other ways to enjoy the film in better colour.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted December 13, 2016 11:26 AM

I've done that very rarely, but only if ...

1. It's a long sought title.
2. The color fade isn't so bad that a color correction filter can make it look pretty good.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 13, 2016 11:58 AM

Never. Not as long as the film is available on DVD or Blu Ray.
I see no point.

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Evan Samaras
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Queens, NY, USA
Registered: Oct 2015

posted December 13, 2016 12:04 PM

I'm doing my best to stay away from any faded titles- I don't want to start down that path.

Now saying that... I do have a few faded titles. Either because it came at almost no cost (if any), or because it was a title I haven't seen come up much and retrieved at a decent price.

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...When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the Earth...

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted December 13, 2016 03:24 PM

The only red or faded prints I have now are those
that have turned since I bought them.
I would never buy a red or faded print.

I was going to sell my faded stock prints to a guy in Norway
who buys such junk but we don't talk no more so it aint gonna
happen. Hahahaha !!! [Big Grin]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted December 13, 2016 05:58 PM

Is that really something to laugh about? It makes you seem to be unprincipled and a seller to be avoided. I hope that is not the case. We are a fraternity of collectors/hobbyists mostly intent on promoting our interest and it is not nice to hear of someone being disadvantaged. Maybe I am too much the other way but -
Not so long ago I sold a beautiful projector in pristine condition and perfect working order to a member who rang me a week later complaining of a fault. Now I know that I was under no obligation to resolve the matter, but because I considered him a friend and as a matter of conscience, I paid for the repair. Not a word of thanks and I have never heard from him since. Sometimes ones faith in humanity and friendship is sorely tested but I guess that's life.

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted December 13, 2016 07:38 PM

I won't deal with red prints. Period. If I am putting money down, it has to look at least halfway decent. Scratches within reason I can tolerate, but a red print, forget it.
The only "reds" in my library are the few 400-footers I bought in the seventies (such as 'Alien', 'Fun in Acapulco') and they are there out of nostalgia and nothing else.
If I am going to set up equipment and watch film, the effort should at least be rewarded with good quality images.

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Clinton Hunt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010

posted December 13, 2016 09:40 PM

The thing is that if you are a super 8mm colllector then nearly all of the films have turned red to some degree and the ones that have excellent colours are expensive .... maybe overpriced sometimes.
And as for 16mm films then I have a few that are red but I really wanted to own them and this is probably the only way to get them.In my case I'm talking about some tv episodes like Hogans Hereos, Happy Days , Land Of The Giants and I have a Planet Of The Apes tv episode where the first 2/3rds is in perfect condition and the last has faded to red.
It's what ever the individual is prepared to live with :-)

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Cheers from me in New Zealand :-)

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Joe Vannicola
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 108
From: Lincoln, DE, USA
Registered: Feb 2014

posted December 13, 2016 10:26 PM

One time at Cinesea, I bought a red print of Krakatoa because it was a whopping $20.00 and I thought," What the hell." But other wise, I don't purchase red prints.

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Joe

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted December 14, 2016 02:00 AM

Anything that's "totally" red goes in the bin, that's all its fit for, but keep the reels and possibly the leader. I would never sell a faded print, and its best for this hobby that they are taken out of circulation....dump it.

There is still a lot of good stuff out there color wise ie the Derann Disney films, Walton T/J that kind of thing [Smile]

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 14, 2016 03:47 AM

Only if I have got them at a bring and buy or auction at a silly, low price, often unexamined.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 14, 2016 03:56 AM

All long term collectors will at some point have red or fading prints. It's impossible not to have as time moves along.

I enjoy them still up until the point where there is no colour at all left in them other than beetroot red. Then they will be scrapped.
All collectors should at this point either do likewise or offer them for free on this understanding.

Many a heavily scratched film should be treated in the exact same manner in my opinion, when they themselves, deem them no longer fit for purpose.
So it isn't only red or faded films that are valueless imo.

Also to Graham, it isn't only Derann Disney feature films that still have superb colour left in them, it is any from that same era of release.
This will be the case for many decades to come just yet.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted December 14, 2016 09:00 AM

I have had some prints that have gone pink since buying them, Some I have sold off cheaply having stated that they are in this condition. It does seem there is still some interest in them. All purchasers have been fully aware of the condition. No one has been cheated. ken Finch.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted December 14, 2016 09:28 AM

I have some faded prints, I try not to buy them now but the odd one still comes home with me, it would be something I haven't seen before and am curious to see what they are like, if it's red i wouldn't bother. I've got films that were good colour and have some fade now but those I would only watch myself and not show to anyone. It makes you appreciate a good colour older print when you get one, Mark

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Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 14, 2016 09:38 AM

As it is only ever I,and I alone, who actually views these prints in person, it matters none here whether they are stunning LPP flawless prints or scratched to death faded ones.

I am the only person to please in my household where this particular pastime is concerned.

Luckily for my own eyes, I am quite a discerning viewing audience of one. [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 14, 2016 09:51 AM

I find my faded prints almost too painful to watch, because I can still remember how stunning they looked when new. Nearly all my digests, purchased in the 70's, have now faded to complete red. Except, for some inexplicable reason, a few have retained most of their original color. Anyway, thank goodness for the Derann prints on low fade stock which have not faded one bit in 30 years.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 14, 2016 09:53 AM

And for the most part, won't do for another 30 thankfully.

Lots to still look forward to and collect then, I'm pleased to say.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted December 14, 2016 11:27 AM

I agree Andrew

The thing is that I am seeing out here at the moment is people are selling prints on the internet and adding like "good condition" or unable to view due to projector being broken...that kind of rubbish. When its obvious to anyone collecting films that those prints will be red.

That's why I wont sell anything like that in case the print goes onto someone who is more interested in making a fast buck re-selling it. Its better those badly faded prints are destroyed to avoid some poor sucker in the future getting caught out.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted December 14, 2016 11:42 AM

However ...

It makes it all that much more enjoyable, when you actually locate an unfaded copy of a title, (like my latest arrival, a completely unfaded "JAWS" 2X400ft digest), and with my better knowledge these days, i know how to store these prints so they don't fade away anytime soon!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 14, 2016 12:42 PM

Understood Graham.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Clinton Hunt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010

posted December 14, 2016 04:35 PM

I totally agree with Mark Mander " It makes you appreciate a good colour older print when you get one"

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Cheers from me in New Zealand :-)

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted December 14, 2016 04:48 PM

Terry...The thing is I have never sold on any of my collection since
I started collecting. I would never sell on a red or faded or
badly scratched print to anyone.

I would give it away which I have done in the past or bin it.
This is something I had to do this year with my beetroot red
16mm print of TALES OF TERROR. As not only was it faded it was
stinking of VS. I had to throw out some 35mm feature films too.

I don't buy red/faded/badly scratched prints on any gauge.
[Smile]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted December 14, 2016 05:13 PM

David
Thanks for making that clear. Apologies if I sounded uncomplimentary. My faith in you is restored. [Smile]

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 14, 2016 10:29 PM

Some of you will hate me for saying this. But while I agree with most comments here on this post I will say this anyways

A red or faded print that is, in your opinion un watchable due to the problem we are discussing

Makes great back up leaders. It is polyester in most cases, which is stronger than acetate.

And if you copy a normal leader for length and mark #8 on the magnetic (shiny) side with a white grease pencil (I draw a heavy white line about 4 inches long) this can be your starting point.

Meaning

When threading the reel and you see the white line come off the reel, STOP the projector when the white line enters the top loop.

Example

This matches the average leader with polyester scrap before the countdown section.

I have installed a 1/2 dowel to the wall near my rewind bench. It is about 5 feet off the floor.

I place a reel of faded optical on that dowel. And spin it freewheel until the end of the leader is just above the floor by 1 inch or so.

Next I grab it with my hand just below the reel and pull out enough to snake over to the splicer where it is trimmed.

I proceed to the table outside my booth where I have previously laid down a countdown from the wall to the table and marked a referrence point on that table with a red marker.

The part of the film to the right of the point is to be spliced to the projected frames.

The part to the left of the point is to be trimmed with the Elmo trimmer for autoload insertion.

At the point I have just described is where the long white line is made.

If you have a lot of reels and need leaders, this works really great at an affordable price.....

Now just understand I write such a print off because I could not stand to watch it based on the condition of fade.

Otherwise, I would NEVER do this.

Chip G

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