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Topic: Film Collecting Price Guide.
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted April 19, 2017 03:45 AM
I suspect anyone parting with the large sums in discussion here, knows exactly what they are getting for their money David.
These buyers as Alan quite correctly points out, simply do not see it that they are wasting their money.
Believe me David, I purchase many films nowadays from many different sources and one thing I've noticed is,..if you come across as simply being completely unrealistic in your demands as a buyer, sellers in this era can, and will, simply just ignore you.
They have others in waiting who will not be quite so fussy and who equally are more than happy to knowingly spend big on what is admitted to as being,far less than perfect goods in many cases.
They will tell you they can well do without the hassles associated with completely unrealistic buyer's at this late stage of the game. The hassle of having goods returned and all.
It's as Alan says above now, with time moving along now and no more of these prints ever to be made again, the seller has the greater power in many sales now for the more sought after items.
We either accept these facts or simply move on in life to some other medium or hobby which gives greater reliability of end result and perhaps greater satisfaction all around for many.
-------------------- "C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Joe Caruso
Film God
Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted April 19, 2017 12:56 PM
Comic books - There you have a definite grading system and standard prices - Recordings and Toys about the same - With Motion Pictures, it is not impossible, yet very touchy for some - As regards 8mm, the same argument can be made for 16mm in an original box - You have two collectibles in one, both emphrema and the celluloid - By itself the film is negotiable - Case; L&H 16mm HOG WILD (Blackhawk) nice and clean - $75 - Too much? Let's consult the price guide - Why, there isn't one, well, we'll add that in and make it $60 - Trouble is, the original dealer will try for that original price - EBAY has curtailed any film-price guide - As been mentioned, we can work things out amongst ourselves without resorting to a guide - You know, if there was one, some may take it much to heart and remain strict - I would like to see one though, then it would be quite a tome whatwith 62mm, 9.5, 17.5, silent versions of "talkies", the many obscure cartoons, the outfits of long ago and how to discern an average price - Oh, it's a worthy task - If I were to start, I say all Blackhawk sound 400' 2-reelers from the Roach library are $30, with the exception of the longer shorts and the rarer editions - Again, quite a task, but one I herald further discussion over - We'll talk of it at Wildwood next week, wish some of you chaps can come over and haggle a bit - Cheers, Shorty
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted April 20, 2017 03:42 AM
Barry uses a grading system as you know David. I once asked him why no print I was ever interested in from reading through his lists, ever had "A" or even "A-" at the side of them.
He said it was because he felt it was fairer to grade nearly all used films as "B+" at best, as they are all used and many have some signs of being used.
There probably are very few actual "A" prints left if a print has been regularly used throughout its lifetime so far, but then to my way of thinking, any grading system relevant to this present day, should in my opinion, be able to start at A and finish at D or E based on what is currently available and the various degrees of wear to what is left in the market.
As I recall, Derann didn't tend to give out an A to prints with emulsion scratches, certainly none I ever bought anyhow, but they would put A- to something with an odd scratch or two if all else was really nice.
I have bought and seen lab defective prints off their lists though with an A against them even though they told you on the list what the minor fault was. Odd reels used to surface often. These, rightly so, were always labelled up as A prints as they were brand new, but still just an odd part from a feature and were generally offered at half the normal selling price. There were many good bargains to be had off the Derann used lists, and not all of them were actually "used".
So overall, I'd say any present day grading system in this era, would have to display a greater tolerance towards minor flaws and defects than back then. Otherwise you simply finish up with a whole list of C, D or E prints that no one would risk buying. I think we all have to be extremely realistic in what we can likely find now compared to the days they were still frequently being made brand new.
-------------------- "C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted April 20, 2017 05:39 AM
I think Derek was probably just thinking to himself, I need to actually sell some of these films.
As I say, I got one or two used features back then labelled as A- prints yet did contain minor emulsion scratches. I was happy enough with them and that was over 25 years ago now, when these prints were less than a few years old.
There are only a very select few feature length prints I have purchased this time around without even a trace of any noticeable wear on them. Recently, I haven't found any that would make your A grade David.
I suspect very few people in this hobby actually buy feature length prints at the price they were new to then only view them all once or twice. I know we see these words written in sales spiel often,even to this day,..but from what I've seen, this is either a gross exaggeration or they are using some awful machines otherwise.
It's actually a fairly difficult thing to achieve, to be able to run an hour and half worth of film in one session regularly, without some kind of minor infliction occurring to the film, certainly it is unless your machines are all kept in tip top precise working condition without any wear to themselves. That rules many machines out sadly David.
I think if it is these levels of flawless perfection that people strive to repeatedly achieve who are interested in film still, then the only realistic option to grant them complete satisfaction, would be some form of digital projection. Even then, often we can find irritating traits in the presentation offered if we are overly picky
-------------------- "C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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