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Author
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Topic: 9.5mm Restoration
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John Tanner
Junior
Posts: 5
From: Cairo, Egypt
Registered: May 2016
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posted May 24, 2016 03:16 AM
Many thanks for your replies so far Chris and Terry. As you can appreciate this forum is a life saver for me as I will need to gather as much information as possible to see what the best course of action is.
To compound the problem the films originated in Egypt, went to the UK and came back to Cairo, where I am living now, which means they also spent some time in the mainly damp UK climate.
In fact my list of films is here:
REFERENCE - FILM NAME - NUMBER - CONDITION
10.070G - J'accuse - 1 - out of reel
10.070G - J'accuse - 2 - half out of reel
10.070G - J'accuse - 3 - for analysis
10.070G - J'accuse - 4 - for analysis
10.070G - J'accuse - 5 - for analysis
10.070G - J'accuse - 6 - for analysis
10.078G - Etre ou ne pas etre - 2 - for analysis
10.078G - Etre ou ne pas etre - 3 - for analysis
10.078G - Etre ou ne pas etre - 4 - for analysis
10.078G - Etre ou ne pas etre - 5 - for analysis
770 - Marin malgre lui. La vie a Bord - 1 - broken
770 - Marin malgre lui. La vie a Bord - 2 - broken
770 - Marin malgre lui. La vie a Bord - 3 - for analysis
770 - Marin malgre lui. La vie a Bord - 4 - for analysis
770 - Marin malgre lui. La vie a Bord - 5 - for analysis
770 - Marin malgre lui. La vie a Bord - 6 - MISSING
770 - Marin malgre lui. La vie a Bord - 7 - for analysis
466 - Les Fantomes, Harold Lloyd - 1 - for analysis
466 - Les Fantomes, Harold Lloyd - 2 - for analysis
466 - Les Fantomes, Harold Lloyd - 3 - for analysis
466 - Les Fantomes, Harold Lloyd - 4 - for analysis
2001 - Marin malgre lui. Dans I'ile de Khaurpura - 3 - for analysis
2001 - Marin malgre lui. Dans I'ile de Khaurpura - 4 - for analysis
2001 - Marin malgre lui. Dans I'ile de Khaurpura 2001 - 5 for analysis
2001 - Marin malgre lui. Dans I'ile de Khaurpura 2001 - 6 for analysis
750 - Marin malgre lui I'enrolement - 2 - for analysis
750 - Marin malgre lui I'enrolement - 3 - for analysis
750 - Marin malgre lui I'enrolement - 5 - for analysis
750 - Marin malgre lui I'enrolement - 6 - for analysis
607 - L'Homme au masque de fer - 1 - for analysis
607 - L'Homme au masque de fer - 4 - for analysis
407 - La culotte de Harold Lloyd - N/A - for analysis
10021 - Libre Echange - N/A - for analysis
I am guessing that it would be difficult to send the films and camera abroad for expert repairs. I probably do not need to stress that in this part of the world things work differently and I need to be careful about what I do as I would not like any of these items to be confiscated in transportation by an opportunist working for the relevant authorities. The other alternative is to find an old timer here who genuinely knows what they are doing but then this requires both knowledge and trust on my part, the latter being more difficult to achieve...
In terms of the films is restoration also possible and is this an expensive process? I imagine that the films would have to be restored as there is no point in risking projecting them in their current state.
Apparently the original owner of the films tells me that they had them in their family in Cairo and someone used to come to their house and project films to their family and friends many years ago. The original projector and some Charlie Chaplin films went 'missing' which is unfortunate but then this is Egypt...
Many thanks for the links. I will look at them and take my time to get my head around what is a new (and exciting) subject for me.
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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 218
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013
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posted May 25, 2016 12:22 AM
Dominique, thanks so much for enlightening me! Those sound like they come from Harold Lloyd's first feature, 'A Sailor-made Man'.
John, the projector will definitely need oil, not just in its restoration but also in its regular use. It's worth oiling it (with sewing machine oil) before anything else. In my earlier email I say how to remove the top to get at the mechanism.
The first problem with the films is that it is pretty much impossible to get them back into the cassettes once they have been removed. In my own case, I would spool these together onto larger spools, which makes them easier to repair as well, but your projector isn't fitted with the longer arms 'super arms' to enable you to project these.
The splicer you have, using cement, will allow you to join the films together where they have broken, but not to make repairs - only a tape splicer will do this, which is why they are worth their weight in gold.
I suppose the first question is whether you feel up to restoring the projector yourself - I only mention this as in England, it is possible to obtain a working Pathe Baby, with a modern replacement shutter, and modern lighting, for around £50 or so. Just worth bearing in mind.
The films are, as Ken says, rare ones, so it would be a pity not to save them if they can be saved.
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Dominique De Bast
Film God
Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted May 25, 2016 04:33 PM
John, I would personnaly not use water on film. Filmguard is much safer but, as said previousely, it is not easy to handle the film in the small cartridges. Graham sells small perfo repairs but is reluctant to mail out of the UK. Of course if you contact him and explain the situation, he could make an exception. I'm afraid, you're not in the right part of the world to have your projector fixed. I know Egypt as I've been there many times (and will be for a few days in August). I remember several years ago having been to a place in Cairo where they used to fix 35 mm projectors but I have no idea where the place was nor if they still could do anything regarding projectors. I got the address from a photo shop, but, again, as it was long time ago, I don't remember which one. If the Kodak shop in front of the synagogue(in the little perpendicular street, downtown in Cairo) still exists, they could maybe help you. Otherwise (good transition with the synagogue), you could try in the neighbooring country, Israël, but even there you may not be lucky. The best thing I would advise is buying another projector or spares and try to fix yours with step by step instructions.
--------------------
Dominique
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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 218
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013
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posted May 26, 2016 02:22 AM
John, the Pathé Baby projector was on the market from 1922-35, and sold well, so there are various ones about if you do decide to acquire another machine. You can also get glass sides to the film chamber with a cutaway section - this is handy to get your fingers in if the film doesn't take up properly.
Dealers like Grahame Newnham or Tony Reypert are worth trying, as well as keeping an eye open here. I sold a working Pathé Baby on the forum last year for £45.
In terms of the films, they are rare on 9.5mm, but in most cases, like Sailor Made Man (the Marin films - thanks Dominique!) and J'Accuse, have been preserved complete on 35mm and are available on DVD. The 9.5mm versions are severely reduced copies of much longer films (J'Accuse runs about 3 hours complete). So this may discourage an institution getting involved. The fun lies in owning them yourself, on film, and being able to show them on an antique hand cranked projector!
Janice has written many posts on this forum about her restoration of a projector identical to yours.
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John Tanner
Junior
Posts: 5
From: Cairo, Egypt
Registered: May 2016
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posted May 26, 2016 06:51 AM
Thanks again for all of your responses. I am overwhelmed and impressed by the level of expertise on this forum.
I added a few pictures to the bottom of my web page on this. I looked through a Kodak website here on this in order to try and understand these technical terms. If my understanding is correct the worst part of the films are suffering from being brittle, having some breaks, creases and also do not all have a tight roll. There is also the term perforation damage but I don't know if this applies to these films.
I am looking at the worst case scenario so I know what I am getting into and I do not want to be in any way tricking anyone or glossing over the severity of the problem.
My original idea had been to do a free showing of some of the films with the projector at a French Cultural Centre in Cairo but I need to look at the existing problems first to see if this will happen at all. At the same time there are may so called experts who claim to know things that they do not know here in Cairo which is why I was advised to get on to your forum first.
Dominique - Many thanks for your advice. Please do not hesitate to contact me by email or pm if you have the time when you are here in Cairo in August, if I am here that is. I am struggling with many things having spent most of my life in the west! There is a place called Cimatheque (which is in the building next to the synagogue) here but I am reluctant to contact them until I get more information on the condition of these films. My preference is to get everything done outside Egypt if possible. I am afraid that a trip to a neighbouring country probably wouldn't be well viewed by the authorities here.
Dino - So tempting. I would love to fly over to the US. I was last in California in 1994 when the other Clinton was President! I added the worst part of the film condition for you to see on my web page (link above). This is not an average. Please bear in mind that I only have 2-6 of Etre ou ne pas etre. I think they are actually in better condition than J'Accuse. I'm not too sure where J'Accuse ends and if there are only six cartridges (I have 1-6). Also I don't mind if you send me an email or pm if there is something you would like to discuss outside the forum.
Ken - Please have a look at the additional pictures if this helps for a more detailed analysis. Looking back at the Kodak site this is what they say about creases:
quote:
A crease is defined as a distinct sharp fold line or crack in a piece of film. We should always splice out a sharp crease because it can lead to further film damage and screenimage deterioration. Creases and folds often occur in leaders and trailers, particularly when poor winding, untaped film ends, use of inadequate reels, or some other filmhandling deficiency spills film onto the floor.
If these creases and folds often occur in leaders and trailers then perhaps this is normal. At the same time I am guessing that this is what leads to breaks...
Chris - Many thanks once again. I was once in touch with Grahame Newnham but now will be able to contact him again with so much more information I have gained from this post.
I may myself do some hunting around the back streets of Cairo for 9.5 films and projectors. Some of the things you find here belong to another era. I think they still sell those massive old big wireless boxes in antique shops...
quote:
The fun lies in owning them yourself, on film, and being able to show them on an antique hand cranked projector!
In many ways this is what I was after but the first priority is the condition of the films followed by a look into the projector problems.
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