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Author Topic: Empire Strikes Back Digests
Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted July 03, 2009 10:13 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, I've got a couple of questions about the Empire Strikes Back digests ...

1. Did Marketing or any other German company release any parts 1 or 2 of "Empire". I have never seen any.

2. Does anybody have a COMPLETELY unfaded part 1?

The reason for the second question is that, while part 2 has absolutely NO fade whatsoever, part 1 does, but it may be due to the negative. Both parts are KODAK SP, but I have noticed that the beginning credit sequence has perfect blacks to it, but as soon as the first shot (Star Destroyer) begins, the space is a very dark brown and not black.

What is interesting, is that the second big space scene, (the Millenium Falcons escape) the space is an even lighter brown! It actually seems to be more faded in the last five minutes and yet, as soon as the "The End" title hits the screen on part 1, we are immediately back to a pure black.

Has anybody seen this problem on they're part 1?

I had thought of trying to find a completely unfaded part 1, but every one I have seen on ebay has had much worse fade.

(it doesn't help when a number of auctions over a period of months stupidly used the same screenshots from another guys auction of a print that was faded. How stupid is that? They're print might have been completely unfaded, but they represented it with faded print images!)

I think I might have lucked on a nearly pristine print and better hold onto it.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted July 04, 2009 01:43 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi, UFA released both Empire Strikes Back reels (same edit as Ken).
I have an unfaded part one from Ken's last batch (december 82).

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted July 04, 2009 09:57 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good to hear about the UFA release.

Really, all I'd like to find, I suppose, is one of those December printings!

I wonder if the negatives for the "Return of the Jedi" release were destroyed, or if someone owns them somewhere? If memory serves me, (it usually serves me wrong), an edit for super 8 was created for "Return of the Jedi" in digest form, but Super 8 had so died by then that it was scraped.

Could you verify that Doug?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted July 04, 2009 10:02 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I heard that rumor too about ROTJ.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted July 04, 2009 10:07 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jean, (hey, you must be on line!) ...

It's a definite possibility. If Ken films were still doing printings as of DEcember 1982 (and you have verified that), then it is entirely possible that ROTJ was prepared for Digest form, as Ken Films editors would have recieved a print of the film for editing either shortly before release or right at that time which was 1983.

Does anybody know who were the editors for Ken films at this time and if so, if they are still alive and kicking? I'd love to find out!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 04, 2009 10:10 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi,

According to Barry Atwood, Ken Films were told that they could have a 2 x 400' extract from "Return of the Jedi" but Lucas Films wanted $200,000 plus royalties. Ken decided against it. They never got to the edit juncture.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted July 04, 2009 10:23 AM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was reading in some previous posts that they wanted too much for releasing a digest, something like $100,000.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted July 04, 2009 10:24 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Damn. That answers THAT question. Thanks Doug!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 04, 2009 10:38 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry,

$100,00 per each 400' digest!

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted July 04, 2009 01:06 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess the only effort towards a "released digest", so to speak, was that fella down in LA, who released ROTJ as a 3X400ft, but it really only consisted of reel 1 and the last two reels of the feature, and I believe our own Doug either has or had a copy of this "digest"?

It was also in scope.

By the way, it is of interest that, while Ken films did release part 2 of STAR WARS in scope and flat, "The Empire Strikes back"
was only released in a flat version. Such a shame.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 05, 2009 11:50 AM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Doug,
Who's Barry Atwood - did he work for KEN back in the day?

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 05, 2009 12:06 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

Barry is the fine gentleman who runs Independent 8, which can be found at http://www.bfcc.biz/.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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John Skujins
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Registered: Mar 2009


 - posted July 08, 2009 12:55 PM      Profile for John Skujins   Email John Skujins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A related question: My ESB volume 2 doesn't sound as crisp as my volume 1. The sound is clear but a little muffled, or more toward the bass end. It was like that when it was brand new (I bought it new in the early '80s). I always wondered if it was just my copy, or if they all sounded like that. Anybody know? How's the sound on yours?

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted July 08, 2009 03:31 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My ESB - part 2, does have more bass than part 1, but sounds very good on my print.

I actually re-recorded the sound on ESB - part 1, because there was not enough bass, and was a little distorted at times. I re-recorded it in stereo from a VHS print, with excellent results. I had originally planned to re-record part 2 into stereo as well, but the sound was very good, so I just transferred the main side to the balance track, so I wouldn't have to switch from "stereo" mode to "mono" mode half way through the combined digests.

James.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted July 09, 2009 09:41 AM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"I have an unfaded part one from Ken's last batch (december 82)."

Jean-Marc: I was curious whether prints from this batch can be identified from leader markings, or did you happen to know that the film was from this batch? I was surprised to spot that a late Ken release I own ('The Rose') is on Agfa stock so I wondered if this would apply to any low fade Ken prints.

Does anyone happen to know if Ken would have printed several other batches in 1982, and whether others also included low fade prints?

[ July 09, 2009, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted July 11, 2009 12:03 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adrian, I'm not home right now but, yes, they can be identified as the leader clearly states "Dec. '82"

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 11, 2009 12:44 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adrian,

I just sold a Ken feature print of "The Dirty Dozen" that was printed in 12/82 and it still has very good color.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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