8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Best choice for laurel and Hardy reprints? (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Best choice for laurel and Hardy reprints?
Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted November 13, 2017 12:30 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you could have a brand new print of a Laurel and Hardy film on super 8, if you had the chance to ... what would be you're pick?

My choice would be "BRATS", as, every print I have seen on Super 8 has been from an apparantly fuzzy and dupey looking print, (mind you, I have opnly seen the Blackhawk super 8 prints of this). it's one of the very few Blackhawk super 8 L & H shorts that is really fuzzy and hard to focus.

You're choices, ladies and Gentleman? [Smile]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 13, 2017 12:52 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For me it would have to be The Music Box: it's kind of the Classic among Classics.

-or how about Laughing Gravy, but the full version? (The Blackhawk print doesn't actually make it all the way to the end!)

There's something wonderful about Blackhawk L&Hs: whenever I'm in the mood for a "new" one I just look on E-bay. Most of the time there's one I don't have yet! It couldn't have been this easy to get them 40 years ago.

-as long as I can tolerate the...variable image quality. My own beloved The Music Box is two 400 footers spliced and the difference at the splice is very noticeable.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted November 13, 2017 02:07 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Blackhawk's LAUGHING GRAVY is the complete American version. The version you see today was put together with an out-take filmed for foreign versions.

I know this is a Super 8 forum, but all 16mm Blackhawk L&Hs that I've seen are very sharp, including BRATS.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 13, 2017 02:40 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's a good thought.

I just got my first 16mm machine. In the interest of keeping it simple, I want to be mostly a dabbler in 16mm, but I could imagine getting a couple of 16mm Blackhawk L&H's.

I've seen a lot of really beautiful classic black and white 16mm at CineSea: that's where I'd like to take this.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 13, 2017 03:35 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On Super 8 Kodak stock? - NIGHT OWLS, only because mine is a bit grainy - Then again, so is a silo - Shorty

 |  IP: Logged

Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted November 13, 2017 03:53 PM      Profile for Panayotis A. Carayannis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For a complete LAUGHING GRAVY you have to find the third reel,which comes from the Spanish version (and is in Spanish!)

 |  IP: Logged

Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted November 13, 2017 08:08 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,

Once you start to dabble, you will be hooked. So beware! [Smile]

If you really want the best looking L&Hs in 16mm, you need to look for Film Classics originals, or even better, print-downs. This is a topic in itself. Blackhawks are easier to find in good condition and you should be perfectly happy with them.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 13, 2017 09:01 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is so true!

15 years ago I figured I'd shoot a couple of rolls of Kodachrome then maybe go back to model trains!

-then look what happened!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted November 14, 2017 08:09 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
TWICE TWO is a particularly bad printing -- at least my copy is. It looks like it was made in Eastin and Phelan's bathtub. BE BIG and THE FIXER UPPERS are pretty bad, too. It would be nice to have all 3 in better printings without having to upgrade to 16mm. For features, WAY OUT WEST could have been better.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 17, 2017 01:13 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All of them. Super 8 is very cost-efficient for home use, but pretty much anything Blackhawk put out in the 8mm formats were murky. I’ve invested in buying most of my Blackhawk library in 16mm in order to benefit from better resolution and it has paid off.

 |  IP: Logged

Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted November 17, 2017 07:14 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have some excellent L&H Blackhawk Super 8 and Standard 8 in my collection. Off the top of my head:
COUNTY HOSPITAL
PERFECT DAY
PUTTING PANTS ON PHILIP (almost all of the L&H silents look great)
THE MUSIC BOX
TOWED IN A HOLE

 |  IP: Logged

Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted November 17, 2017 08:41 PM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our family really like blockheads.
The scene with the stairs, and the football and such.
Plus the missing leg scene. Great movie all around!

--------------------
--
Cheers,
Matt 📽

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 17, 2017 08:42 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How about Blotto, one of the funniest L&H's that I have seen.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

 |  IP: Logged

Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted November 18, 2017 06:55 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BLOTTO is one of my favorites. I once had a Super 8 Blackhawk that had fine picture quality, but was splicy. I upgraded it to a Films Classics 16mm.

CHICKENS COME HOME is another one I have in Super 8 that has mediocre picture quality. This is another good choice for a reprint.

 |  IP: Logged

Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted November 18, 2017 10:42 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are excellent Super 8 sound L&H Blackhawks, with a little luck you will find them.

I had a perfect S8 sound of Chickens Come Home. There are excellent prints of Dirty Work out there too. Don’t despair.

If there are two Super 8’s that deserve an upgrade are for their original titles are The Music Box and The Chimp.

The transitions in The Music Box, diagonally slide giving the appearance of walking a staircase and makes the film more appealing, memorable, and reminiscent in the plot of climbing steps.

The Chimp with original titles were printed by Film Preservation Associates, owned by the late David Shepard. Shepard bought the Blackhawk collection and took over the reigns and released preserved editions of Blackhawks material.

Shepard restored the original MGM titles of The Chimp from a 16 Canadian neg. The main title visual transition by tearing open as if a circus performer would break through a circus hoop. The gag titles are also corrected and restored in their proper order.

Shepard's prints from Film Classic Associates are generally very good, when the lab work varied, or was poor they were receptive to returning for a reprint.

David restored Pack Up Your Troubles to it's complete length, and cleaned up the sound to bell clear quality.

Someone should release the updated The Battle of The Century. A more extant version has been circulating in special venues that includes more action in the 2nd reel than the extended version that Blackhawk released in the late '70's.

Habeas Corpus and We Faw Down should be restored to include the original Vitaphone scores and several missing scenes to make each of these films more complete.

Hog Wild may be grainy and Brats is a tough one to find that’s not printed light. Sometimes the Standard 8mm sound prints are better.

Collectors have told me that their S-8 prints of Blockheads are disappointedly soft.

I started with the 16’s of the L&H’s when I wanted to fill the gaps in titles that were missing from my Super 8 collection and John Black told me that although that you may not be in the market for a title, when an L&H comes your way, to pick it because eventually you will become a completist for their 40 sound shorts.

Joseph made a good point about the Blackhawks and you will be perfectly happy because when it comes to 16’s it can also be a mixed bag, and 16’s of Film Classics are not always perfect.

There was a company named: Walter Reade and their company also released L&H from the Film Classics Library. Their prints were Light, dupey and sometimes the sound was not good.

I've only seen one Walter Reade that had merit, The Midnight Patrol, the soundtrack was better than the Blackhawks.

I don't know why the background track on Midnight Patrol is printed faintly because you can barely hear LeRoy Shield's music that was standard on the early L&H’s. Otherwise the print quality on Blackhawk’s Midnight Patrol is very good. The Janus films release is more of a print down quality.

I have a Blackhawk of Chickens on 16mm, that's taken from what appears to come from a 35mm fine grain, and it’s outstanding. I’ve seen Film Classics of Chickens that Joseph spoke about and it’s excellent as he mentioned, but look out for the Blackhawk 16 that’s from the better material, it’s outstanding.

For some unknown reason, Film Classics mis-titled the main title as Chicken Come Home, and not Chickens Come Home.

As an L&H aficionado I’ve liquidated all in 8mm for 16’s. I kept some 8’s in the event of downsizing.

Regarding Night Owls, there was a company: Library Films and they had an excellent neg on 16.
I've seen a 16mm Library films release on Brats and it was very good.
The Library Films of Thicker Than Water, you miss the final gag as Ollie pulls the transition closed on the The End title.

Hog Wild and Brats must have been re-printed numerous times, and the picture neg may have been resized during the silent to sound period.

I have a 1947 Film Classics print on Hog Wild. With the exception of some marks, it’s the sharpest picture and sound quality, this side of the Janus film 16’s from 1980’s.
This print rings with best of CD quality, that all prints that we know today sound E.Q’d in comparison.

I also have a Blackhawk of The Bohemian Girl, printed in 1964. This print has excellent picture and sound track. The 1600’ reels are printed in 20 minute sections spliced together, apparently how it was released on the original neg, because the sound track has CD quality sound too.

The Blackhawk on Our Relations and Swiss Miss are superb.

In 1975 Blackhawk printed an outstanding print of Way Out West. The main title card is a Blackhawk with the thick white letters against a black background, and the following titles are original, but what makes this print terrific is that it comes from the fine grain material. The detail is phenomenal especially when noticing the varying seams of fabric on Stan’s overcoat, as he’s brushing off Ollie’s suit while in the water pond for the first time.

Buy from someone reliable, because there are prints that are being dumped from libraries.

MGM The Chimp Titles

[ November 19, 2017, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Michael De Angelis ]

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 19, 2017 08:11 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, we all know about Battle - Shorty

 |  IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted November 19, 2017 08:43 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All of the above - plus all the ones not mentioned [Smile]

 |  IP: Logged

Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 19, 2017 08:44 AM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Them Thar Hills with Tit For Tat are my favorites

 |  IP: Logged

Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 19, 2017 09:20 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Derann reprints despite the blue tint from using colour stock where miles better than any of the grainy Blackhawks. Them thar Hills ,Tit for Tat ,Below Zero Chumps at Oxford , Sons of the Desert, Way out West and Music Box being the best. I had a great copy of Chickens come Home but unfortunately using a dodgy film cleaner helps it develop even growing brown blotches 💩💩so eventually had to bin it.

 |  IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted November 19, 2017 10:29 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have always found that the Super 8 sound releases of the Boys by Walton Films are pretty good.

--------------------
Maurice

 |  IP: Logged

David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted November 19, 2017 03:41 PM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I like the Walton releases, sadly cut a little. I once bought a Blackhawk print from Regent Films in Blackpool. I had to return it faulty

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

 |  IP: Logged

Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted November 19, 2017 09:24 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Collectors may appreciate these titles with the additional scenes restored on the following:

The Second Hundred Years

The Hoosegow

Men O’ War

Pack Up Your Troubles

Restore the picture quality on The Music Box as Steve mentioned.

Restore the print quality on The Sons of The Desert,
include the two cuts that were removed from the original feature.

A release of The March of The Wooden Soldiers / Babes in Toyland, and to include the original titles and cave scenes.

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged

Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted November 20, 2017 01:52 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael,

What scenes need to be restored on?

THE SECOND HUNDRED YEARS
THE HOOSEGOW
SONS OF THE DESERT

Thanks

 |  IP: Logged

Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted November 21, 2017 01:08 AM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The hoosegow has a brief scene when they run for lunch there’s some dialog with the chef.

Check out this link that explains the Second Hundred Years film:
https://thelostlaugh.com/tag/the-second-hundred-years/

I constructed this video to show the comparison with the jump cut and the completed scene of the boys in the lodge.

https://vimeo.com/243792120

Let this play out, and then the second video will repeat with the same scene that fills the jump cut with the "Excuse me" dialog that's missing from the Blackhawk.

The last edited clip shows you Charlie Chase telling Mae: "you little organ pumper you,"
which is edited out of Film Classics neg that Blackhawk used.

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged

Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted November 22, 2017 10:57 AM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Michael for the detailed information.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2