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Topic: Eumig RS3000

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted March 12, 2015 11:28 AM

When playing Super 8 sound film on the Eumig I get a lot of background hum which is quite annoying. Does anyone know how to reduce or eliminate the hum?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 12, 2015 11:35 AM

I have to answer your question with a question, or several.

Is this hum through the internal speaker, or are you connecting it to an external amp?

If it's through an amp, does it still hum even with the projector sound powered "off"?

Hum shows up for a lot of different reasons, and you can do everything you should to fix it for one reason and not make a bit of difference if it's one of the others.

I chased the wrong reason for years before I figured that out!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted March 12, 2015 02:35 PM

Hello Steve
I guessed you be the one to have an answer. The hum is present through the internal speaker and also using an extension speaker and just using the built-in amp, not an external amp. The hum is directly proportionate to the volume used ie. the more volume used the louder the hum.
Terry

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted March 12, 2015 03:02 PM

Eumig were famous for their hum.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 12, 2015 03:07 PM

They did get it right though, as Paul A advocates, the S938/40 have a fabulous stereo sound stage with minimal hum. As good as I've heard on any machine.

Hum can always be eliminated if you can find the correct areas that need grounding better than they currently are.
Static can play a big part on hum from the transport drum etc.

Until I got to the bottom of it, my Spondon long play arms always generated loads of hum through the Bauer and it was always static related. Before I got to the bottom of the problem I used to always run a separate earth lead from the frame of it through to the earth terminal on my mixer.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 12, 2015 03:25 PM

OK,

So what you have is internal hum, not an external ground loop. This can be the result of grounding problems inside the machine, or electrolytic power supply capacitors that have dried out and have fallen in value or magnetic pickup.

Pickup is the collision of two things that happen at once: one is the fact that we have this very sensitive sound head sensing this feeble little magnetic field on the stripe and sending it off to be amplified into sound, the second is we have this great big power transformer with a huge magnetic field that can't help but share a little with the sound head.

Eumig wasn't very shy about putting the transformer closer to the head than they should have, and particularly on the 800 series this is a big part of the hum problem. I don't know your machine as well, but the same people designed it.

Try this: if you are wearing a wedding ring, bring it close (not touching...) to the head and see if the hum changes in volume. (DON'T get married just so you can do this!)

This is a good thing to try first because it's easy and free.

By the way, is this a new problem, or just a "new" machine?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted March 12, 2015 03:32 PM

Thanks Steve I will try that. I like your sense of humour. No wonder you like
L & H. Films.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 12, 2015 03:42 PM

With either Stan or Ollie in the room, I'd keep my machines locked away!

(Remember what they did to that piano?)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 12, 2015 03:50 PM

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted March 15, 2015 03:26 AM

Here is the Eumig RS3000.
http://www.super8data.com/database/projectors_list/projectors_eumig/eumig_rs3000.htm

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Maurice

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 15, 2015 09:19 AM

I think when you see that picture that Maurice linked to, it suddenly dawns on you the reason behind the infamous sprocketless coaxial reel arrangement that plagued the early 900 series machines.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 16, 2015 12:11 PM

Doug Meltzer has one of these that pops the fuse every time he lights the lamp. I brought it home from CineSea to use the 6 months in-between to try to figure out what was wrong. (Life being what it was at the time it grew into a year!)

I managed to isolate it down to some fault inside the lamp circuit that shorted when the lamp low/high switch went to "high", but the thing is such a puzzle-box I could never get to where the problem was!

-It's one of these setups where you take out every screw you can see, then start looking for every screw you can't see. (Translation: "Do not repair me unless you are factory trained and have the service manual.")

I conceded defeat, put it back together and brought it back to him.

I know there's been a lively Elmo/anti-Elmo debate for a long time here (...as long as it stays civil!), but one of the plusses is they are put together logically and when things go astray they usually cooperate when under repair!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 16, 2015 12:27 PM

Well Steve, one of the things that I think is nice about the Eumig 900 stereo machines, is the fact that the electronics is all on one very neat board which is mounted by itself inside the base of the machine, totally separated from all the mechanical stuff. I don't know if that helps or hinders servicing electronic problems, but it certainly looks like a very neat electronic packaging design. Contrast that with the GS where the electronics are strung all around the machine on multiple boards and modules, all hooked together by wire harnesses and connectors.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 16, 2015 12:39 PM

That reflects my personal biases:

I'm an electronics guy: multiple boards connected by harnesses are just another day on the job. (My current project is a single machine the size of a decent-sized shopping mall! -miles and miles and miles of harnesses...)

I tend to like isolating functions to different assemblies as well (at least as a troubleshooter...) It makes placing blame easier and if you are lucky enough to have substitutes you can swap boards until the thing works again.

(Beware scenarios where one assembly is damaging another, though.)

What I like to see when I'm working on something is assemblies held down with a couple of decent sized chromed #6 screws, plainly visible, of a small variety of lengths, easily accessed and with the very user-friendly #1 or #2 Phillips head! I am wary of Allen heads, little hexes and whacky stuff like torx heads.

-I spend enough time at Sears as it is!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted March 16, 2015 12:48 PM

Hello. Would it be possible to post a couple of phtos of the innards of this specific Eumig model (lamp side)? Thank you.

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Maurizio

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005

posted March 17, 2015 05:35 AM

Here is a pic Maurizio.

dogtor

[ March 17, 2015, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

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At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

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[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
//``\\
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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted March 17, 2015 04:34 PM

Thank you, Frank. I just wanted to check which sound head assembly this specific model has: I no see it features the usual assembly found on model 905 and up, except the stereo models and model 936 934. I've always wondered why was it that Eumig devised two totally different sound heads with their respective head mounts...

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Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 17, 2015 06:30 PM

Purely based on cost on Maurizio.

I have a DVD that shows the Eumig plant in operation at their height of their innovation in the very late 70's / early 80's and by then they were manufacturing almost every single component for their machines in house.

Even their lenses were made in the same factory!

Given the depth of the operation at the time, it isn't surprising that they manufactured many different magnetic heads dependant on each machines price tag and design requirements at the time.

If Super 8 had survived as the main amateur movie making format for even just a few years more, I am certain they would have made THE machine to beat from a performance perspective.

They were always very price and budget conscientious, so they may not have given us a projector made from the highest quality components or build quality, but from a purely performance based perspective, they were already well on track to outperform most others by the time they manufactured what turned out to be their last two flagship models with a huge emphasis on sound quality achievable from the tiny magnetic stripes.

[ March 19, 2015, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 17, 2015 06:37 PM

I've been running my Bolex SP-80 Special (rebadged Eumig 800 Series) quite a bit since I finally figured out how to get it to play nice with my sound system.

It has a couple of things about it that are a little quirky, but it's a nice running machine and I'm enjoying it.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted March 18, 2015 08:21 AM

Thanks, Andrew. BTW where did you get that DVD?

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Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 18, 2015 08:35 AM

I will try to send you a copy if you like Maurizio? It was a bonus feature on the end of one of the BFCC discs. Can't remember which off the top of my head but a really interesting article.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted March 18, 2015 10:11 AM

Please I'd really love to!. I'll PM soon. Thank you.

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Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 18, 2015 10:16 AM

I will have to go through them again Maurizio and find the article. Once I have, I will make you a copy of it and hopefully convert it small enough in size to be able to mail it to you in MP4 format or similar. You will then be able to run it on your pc.

I have found the chapter on the disc now Maurizio.
It also contains a section about the RS3000. I am converting it at the moment to an avi file so I will let you know what size it finishes up at. Hopefully I will be able to mail it electronically.
I will keep you posted.

[ March 18, 2015, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 18, 2015 02:28 PM

I have managed to post this on the web now so all can enjoy.
It is really interesting and should provide an insight to what I was saying to Maurizio hopefully.

https://vimeo.com/122564019

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted March 18, 2015 03:52 PM

Awesoooooooome!!!!
Thanxxxx so much. Really interesting. A jump into the past when manufacturing really had value: R&D was R&D and hardware was hardware, as durable as it could be. That's what our hobby is all about after all, isn't it?

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Maurizio

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