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Author Topic: Are there more people in our hobby than meets the eye ?
Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted September 08, 2017 04:52 AM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is a question I am beginning to think could be true.... and I hope I am right.
I do a moderate amount of film selling on Ebay, and in most cases the names of the winners are completely unknown to me. I am not suggesting that the members of this forum are the only people left on the planet involved in this wonderful hobby. Indeed, I know at least two people who collect super 8, 16mm and 35mm who are not here.
If you sell films on Ebay, do you notice that most of your winners are "unknown" to you, or are they fellow forum members?

I would be interested in your comments.

.

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"My name is for my friends!"

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 08, 2017 05:10 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just in general:

Film collecting is an Old School kind of thing, and there are a number of the older Old School kind of people who still aren't on the internet.

A very widely esteemed film guy who I won't name because I don't want to seem like I'm criticizing got an E-mail address a couple of years ago. I sent him a question and just as before he called me back on the phone (-actual voice! No texting!). From our talk it was obvious he hadn't read my note. I asked him about it and he said "That's my wife's thing: I never read it, she just tells me the names."

So anybody like this has no visibility of us, and vice versa.

As far as the people who actually are on the Internet:

What about all the people that are here that we never see? We have over 5000 members and the number grows almost daily. How many are really active? Maybe a hundred. I bet a lot of the people you encounter actually are members here, but there's no way you'd ever know it. Some of them may have joined so long ago that even they forgot they are members.

PS: I have no problems with people lurking. I did that myself for about 6 months back in 2003.

What's funny is I was at my son's Scout meeting a couple of years ago and one of the other Dads walked up to me and asked me a projector question: he found me here. Here was a lurker come to the surface in real life!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 08, 2017 06:26 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lack of knowledge of English is another reason why some people don't contribute to the forum. Many French and Spanish ninefivers for example are not comfortable nor with the Net nor with Shakespeare's language.

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Dominique

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Clinton Hunt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted September 08, 2017 07:25 AM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Author's Homepage   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here in New Zealand we film people use a NZ auction sight and wether I'm selling or buying films or equipment I often deal with the same people,and of course strangers.
Buying from overseas on eBay then usually strangers.
As for other languages then online translators are brilliant.I bought 9.5mm films from France and messaged in English and French,I have even bought Super 8mm films from Germany and used online translators for that too.
Anything is possible now [Smile]

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Cheers from me in New Zealand :-)

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 08, 2017 09:24 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting - With that many members world-wide, film shows would be abounding with people - I urge those of a mind, to attend shows in Columbus and Wildwood, Buffalo and everywhere as you will learn more and become steadfast friends with many who share in the experience - As to EBAY, at first several sellers I never knew, then potential repeat buys brought me into their realm, so to speak - Friendship and trust established and it evolved from there - I still remain in touch with past sellers who have given me leads elsehwere or come across items I'm after - Cheers all, Shorty

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted September 08, 2017 10:40 AM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you to everybody so far, who has responded to my topic. Keep your thoughts coming.

Steve - A very interesting read. Although I did not mention it in my main thread, I had tried to estimate how many of the 5000 or so members of this forum are active and I,too,reached a figure of approx.100 It would be an interesting exercise if Brad or Doug were to send the inactive members an email asking them if they still wish to remain on the forum or not (not that I am suggesting they should.I am sure they have enough on their plates)and,if yes, to please contribute more. I wonder what the response would be?

Clinton - You have got the right idea. With the marvels of modern day technology, we can now converse with almost the entire population of the planet. I bet your translator has helped you obtain prints you never thought you would ever buy?

Joe - No doubt you would be dealing more on the USA branch of Ebay and not Ebay UK. In which case, due to the differences in population, there will be far more "strangers" selling films than over here...... and you manage to turn a lot of them from strangers into friends, or friendly contacts, which is admirable!

Dominique - Quel dommage! J'ai pense que la plupart de personnes Francais et Belgique parlent anglais,aussi? Evidemment ce n'est pas vrai.

.

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"My name is for my friends!"

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Greg Perry
Film Handler

Posts: 86
From: midwest
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted September 08, 2017 10:55 AM      Profile for Greg Perry   Email Greg Perry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Melvin,

Of the small number of ebay film sales I have completed, I would guess 80% of the buyers were names I was not familiar with. So they were either infrequent and unrecognized (by me) posters/lurkers, or not forum members. I did not look them up to confirm membership. I will point out that most of my ebay sales were 16mm--but the percentage also holds true when evaluated against Larry's 16mm forum as well.

But I would agree with your theory, their are in fact more of us out there who are not currently participating in the forum.

Our hobby, at least to me, seems like a more or less solitary one. I don't go out of my way to talk about projectors and film collecting to others because most can't quite grasp the "why" of it all. And while the forum provides access to many folks that do get it I would guess a good number of collectors may not even be aware of the forum's existence.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 08, 2017 10:55 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's interesting: you don't need to join to just read. (My friend from Scouts didn't join.) So I can't see joining and never posting.

-but I don't think there's any real harm in it either.

If I were a member here 20 years ago, I wouldn't have been very active. I had a small silent collection and one projector. There really wasn't that much to say, but times changed.

I have this idea that I'm the only film collector for like 20 miles in any direction, but that can't be true. If there was another one a block away and they didn't make contact here, there's no way either of us would be any wiser.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 08, 2017 11:01 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, Melvin, sadly. Most of the French-speaking people don't speak English.
Several cine enthusiasts (they will recognize thewselves) I met in Britain at conventions knew me from the forum but said they never sent any message. So if someone is registred but never contribute, that doesn't mean he's not interested. Of course, that's probably not the majority of the "inactive" members but it's to say that it's hard to tell just by what we see (if that sentence is understandable :-)

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Dominique

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 08, 2017 11:11 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know from speaking to Leon Norris that there are many collectors who don't post but they are out there and from what he told me ..serious collectors. He told me of one customer who has numerous GS1200's and a few Xenons!
And they have Fumeo's, Beaulieu's.
And of course very nice film collections.
When I was a kid I always thought only people in the USA had Super 8 films! [Smile] Then in the late 90's I found Derann and then I thought all the collectors were in Europe.
Would you say that there are more collectors in Europe than here in the USA? I don't think we could ever have a Blackpool or a Derann films here. Not enough interest.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted September 08, 2017 12:20 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My impression is that Super 8 has always been more popular in Europe and 16mm more popular in the US. I may be wrong.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted September 08, 2017 12:48 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe that you're right Micheal, being that the U.K. and elsewhere in the world, have kept super 8 alive thru either companies still putting out super 8 product or people just professionally selling super 8 to this day.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted September 08, 2017 01:11 PM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan - For BLACKPOOL read WILDWOOD
For DERANN read THE REEL IMAGE

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"My name is for my friends!"

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted September 08, 2017 01:28 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know of 3 collectors that live in my city area and we don't communicate hardly at all so I agree that it is a solitary hobby. Most of my screenings are an audience of one....me. I drive 3 hours away to enjoy hanging with like minded collectors when there are ones close by I rarely see. And to the topic I believe there are a lot of collectors not on any forum....especially the older ones.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 08, 2017 01:35 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah, but Melvin!

The Reel Image and CineSea are both beautiful, but they are compact in size.

CineSea fits in a single room maybe 30 by 60 feet. When somebody skips one it usually doesn't go unnoticed by the ones that show up.

Typical at the dinner Saturday night: 30 people, and that's almost all of us.

When we look at the videos from the UK conventions we see a lot of the same kinds of goings on we have, just much more.

There was a time before it got going I thought it would never happen, so to me it's almost a minor miracle.

The US moved on from small gauge film pretty quickly. Our "Derann" was Blackhawk, and that building went empty well before 1990.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted September 08, 2017 01:57 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dominique is quite right when it comes to non-english speaking folk and this is where "Facebook" with its auto translate is really good. The people I have come across from Europe are serious Super 8 film makers and some of the stuff they put up with there "videos" and stills are amazing and that's something you would never see here.

So if you want to get an idea "are there there more people in the hobby than meets the eye"? you will have to look further than this forum. [Smile]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 08, 2017 03:14 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If language is the problem, count how many Australian members here....very few, while they speak English.

I used to live in Australia, and know that fans of 8mm, both film collecting and shooting, was quite big.

They have their own meetings/trading events/conventions. Kodak used to have a Kodachrome lab here.

It is even bigger for 16mm collecting scene.

There are several publications on both gauges.

Japan is another story,....but yes they don't speak English. However Japan is the land for Elmos (projector), Canons (camera), Gokos (editor), Fuji Lamps (bulbs), Fujifilms (film stock)....etc for many lower level for each category. Shooting with Super 8mm os still an extracurriculum at many schools [Smile]

So...yes there are more film collectors than what we think.

Cheers,

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Winbert

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Dave Ruth
Film Handler

Posts: 84
From: Easton, PA, USA
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted September 08, 2017 03:31 PM      Profile for Dave Ruth   Email Dave Ruth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I started selling some of my films at the beginning of the year, and I have only sold to the same person twice. It does really surprise me to see the names of the buyers and not recognize any of them from this forum or the 16mm forum.

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Michael Lattavo
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 160
From: Canton, OH, USA
Registered: May 2014


 - posted September 08, 2017 03:37 PM      Profile for Michael Lattavo   Email Michael Lattavo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Bill (I work in his hometown, by the way). We have been short-handed at work, so I've been giving driving tests almost every day - which means I pass your exit anywhere from 6-7 times a day! I can't tell you how many times I think "I wonder how Bill Phelps and his Dad are doing? I should give him a call one of these days - still haven't had him over to see my set-up in the basement, and still want to check his out as well."

But it never happens - by the time I'm done with work, my routine is get home, get cleaned up, play with the kids for a few minutes, eat dinner, help get them to bed, take a shower and go to bed myself to do it all over again the next day. I think that's one great thing about the shows - it gets put in the calendar. No work, no obligations, no excuses - its time to drive to Dayton (for my very first outdoor show there!), or Columbus, or Buffalo, or Wildwood (I'll be in Room 215 this year, by the way!). I've got boxes of film in the basement, a 35mm projector sitting in the garage I'm trying to get going (in my mind, at least), etc. etc. I always think "someday, someday there will be more time".....

As far as posting vs lurking, I'll admit I look each forum up every day - but a lot of times, just don't have anything to say...and I know of at least two that I signed up for very early on that I never check anymore.

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted September 08, 2017 05:10 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We'll see you in Dayton Michael! That's what I mean...we live very close but drive for 3 hours to hang out....go figure! Maybe we could work something out to get together at some point. I have some 35mm trailers that would be nice to see....I've never seen them myself.

[ September 08, 2017, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Bill Phelps ]

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted September 09, 2017 03:01 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My opinion is that interest is growing in film and equipment. People are looking to invest in anything old these days whether it be sewing machines, old hand cranked gramophones, slot machines, tape recorders etc. Just look at the resurgence in vinyl and record players! How much more fascinating is the world of Cine and all its history. You don't see anything cine related at car boots/flea markets or Charity shops any more. Anyone looking for items has to invariably turn to eBay to find it. I suspect that a good proportion has been dumped and it is becoming scarce, especially items in good condition. Don't forget some of it is 100years old or more.
So chin up - no,no both of them! (L&H Chumps ar Oxford) [Smile]

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted September 09, 2017 04:02 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Terry to an extent. There is a growing interest in old technology, vinyl records, talk of a resurgence in interest in audio cassettes, etc
However, curiosity doesn't always translate into the perseverance required in film collecting, the difficulty with locating good prints, knowing where and from whom to buy, caring for acquired prints, maintaining equipment, and so on.
I wonder how soon, and for how many, the novelty soon wears off.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted September 09, 2017 04:22 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I refer to the original question, I think the answer is yes.

Some good comments have been made here. For instance, about acquiring anything decent, whether be films or equipment.

eBay is a virtual mine field with rubbish being offered at outrageous prices by people who are obviously after a quick buck, knowing nothing about what they are selling and often quoting Retro very prominently!

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Maurice

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 09, 2017 05:06 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am still wondering how many Australian are member here.

Perhaps, Doug using his moderator status can see the actual number?

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Winbert

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 09, 2017 10:30 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As one of the founders at Wildwood, I urge all our friends both here and abroad to attend next month - You will love coming and never want to leave - It will have that wonderful effect on you all - Whomever does come will bring with them knowledge, stories, films and we can further our mutual interests in both the technological and performance of motion pictures - Language barriers, I think not, once that first projector whirrs along we all speak the same - Cheers all, Shorty

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