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Author Topic: Best Bell and Howell of all times ?
Niels Peter Buch
Film Handler

Posts: 76
From: Hvidovre, Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted March 04, 2016 08:47 AM      Profile for Niels Peter Buch   Email Niels Peter Buch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello.
What are experience concerning Bell and Howell 16 mm projectors.
Which model should I look for.
My thoughts are : A model with autoload, Halogen lamp 250 watt and the ones free of trouble with bad worm gears !
Does this machine excist or am I naiv ?
Perhaps model TQM 2685, 2692 or 2698 ?

Kind regards.

[ March 10, 2016, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Niels Peter Buch ]

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Niels Peter Buch

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted March 04, 2016 12:02 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Niels
I'm afraid all the TQ3 machines can suffer from cracking worm gears but I have a 1698 which is perfect at the moment but who knows how long it may last. If you really want a Bell & Howell look for one that has had the original worm replaced. Apart from the original worm gear problem they are a great machine.
I should have said that all TQ Bell & Howells can be affected this way and also some of the previous models.

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted March 04, 2016 02:59 PM      Profile for David Guest     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the best projector was the belland howell model 644 manual thread optical and magnetic playback and record with a 25 watt amp the daddy of them all I do have a few for sale in ex cond I have a 655 and 658

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted March 04, 2016 03:12 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes David but unless I am mistaken these had the dreaded worm gear too.

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted March 04, 2016 04:13 PM      Profile for David Guest     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have one my father bought new over 35 years ago and been used 100s of times and gear is just as good as it was when fitted

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted March 04, 2016 04:38 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, mine is good too. But no one can guarantee how long it will last or that it will never fail. The only solution is to fit a solid nylon replacement. I seem to remember that you claim to have undertaken this repair several times?

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted March 04, 2016 04:49 PM      Profile for David Guest     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yes fitted many a gear but don't do them now my father bought loads of spares when bell and howell seized trading over 300 gears belts motors etc

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted March 05, 2016 02:29 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I am in awe of anyone who can do that repair. I'm told that it involves completely stripping the machine to get to the worm gear and also, more importantly, making crucial precision adjustments after fitting the replacement to ensure correct film projection. And that is just for a non animation gear. The fitting of an animation gear is more complicated I'm told. I've often thought about buying an old cheap machine to try and do it myself, but I fear that it would be beyond me.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 05, 2016 03:13 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I am struggling to understand what possible timing adjustments would be necessary if the angular position of the worm gear was matched to the old one at the time of refit Terry, when meshing with the spur gear?

Similar to how all cam shaft and crankshaft pulleys have to be pinned before fitting a timing belt on a car.

Surely the worm gear is fixed to the shaft by a key or a grub screw or celloc pin?

Are these already a part that Edwin has reproduced by 3d printing methods?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted March 05, 2016 04:24 AM      Profile for David Guest     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
fitting the gear is not the problem but you need to get the timing gear right and the claw set up otherwise gear can seized ,I know a lot of people who fitted gears that they had bought on ebay and fitted them perfect and within less than a minute gear seized and had to be replaced again has a lot of the gears that were going around were not machined right when made ,all the ones I had were genuine bell and howell gears I still have about 20 left but they are not for sale

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 05, 2016 04:29 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Cheers David, top explanation there thanks! [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted March 05, 2016 10:04 AM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings
Worm Gear Replacement

Worm gear replacement is major overhaul. To change it requires EXTENSIVE disassembly of the mechanism (once it's removed from the projector of course!). Once you start dissembling the mechanism you lose all the critical adjustments which require the special (expensive) Bell & Howell tools & jigs to readjust/realign. The new gears are colored black (non Still) to distinguish them from the old style plastic

It takes at least 4 to 6 hours to open / replace that worm gear / and to REASSEMBLE your B&H correctly.

Average cost worm gear replacement job costs around $300 per machine plus parts.

One could replace only the cracked worm gear, but it is almost the farthest thing into the projector. Half the labor is expended just accessing it. And, the projector probably wouldn't be happy and might have wow in sound and picture instability, because sprocket spindles may be dry of lubrication, a sprocket gear may be warped, sound head needs attention, shuttle needs adjustment, uneven take up drive, etc., etc.

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RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 05, 2016 10:13 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Even more detailed Richard thanks!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted March 05, 2016 10:22 AM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings Andrew
Glad to be of service
RC

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RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 05, 2016 10:26 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
[Smile] [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted March 05, 2016 10:33 AM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Much as I liked the TQ3 machines and used them in the 80s period of my collecting, I wouldn't recommend them now at all. For exactly the reasons discussed. I threw my last one in the bin about four years ago and gave away the lenses and that was that. Eiki and Elmo now. Sad but true.

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Clyde Miles
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 205
From: Bromsgrove, UK
Registered: Nov 2013


 - posted March 05, 2016 10:52 AM      Profile for Clyde Miles   Email Clyde Miles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the very last ones they made had good worm gears. problem was cured by making internal core smaller thus thickening the nylon gear.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted March 05, 2016 11:15 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Still struggling Andrew?? Reminds me of the time I went to a garden machinery shop to buy a petrol engined mower. When the salesman told me the price I said 'That's ridiculous! I can buy a good second hand car for that.' To which he replied 'Ah yes. But you can't mow the lawn with a second hand car!' There's no answer to that really. In the same context you can't project a film with a car. They are different animals and so are the repairs. [Big Grin]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 05, 2016 01:49 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
No I get it now Terry, but I reckon it's doable. [Smile] [Wink]

We love a gritty challenge don't we just ha ha? [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Douglas Warren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: West Chester, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2008


 - posted March 07, 2016 06:52 AM      Profile for Douglas Warren     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I'll stick to my Kodak Pageants.I had a Bell & Howell 2585 briefly when I first got interested in the 16 mm side of film collecting 6 months ago. Bought it not knowing any better about the dreaded worm gear issue. A shame about that really as they seem to be very nice machines otherwise.

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Turn out the lights,the movie is starting!

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013


 - posted March 07, 2016 07:27 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Clearly everyone has their favourite machines. As for the Bell & Howells still working well on the original worm gear I would say don't be afraid of them and keep using them while you can. Don't worry just inspect the worm at least once a year.

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Paul.

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Niels Peter Buch
Film Handler

Posts: 76
From: Hvidovre, Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted March 07, 2016 03:43 PM      Profile for Niels Peter Buch   Email Niels Peter Buch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you all, for some very interesting inputs !
ill maybe find a nice cheap Bell and Howell projector some day.
And throw me self away in a major overhaul.
Succes or failure !

Eitherway ill learn a bit more everytime and have a great time " nursing" this fine piece of machinery
.
Kind regards

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Niels Peter Buch

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 20, 2016 12:33 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm going to use my 2585 and my Eiki SL-0 until something goes and then I'm sending them to Richard Patchett to fix. 😉 As long as Richard is still in the "Fix-It" business I'm not worried.

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted March 21, 2016 06:04 AM      Profile for Dave Groves   Email Dave Groves   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have two B/H 1695 machines (turquoise models). They were both serviced and had the worm gear changed. I had one converted from the EMM/EKS lamp to a more easily obtainable A1/259. All my shows are pubic and they've never let me down. One is slightly noiser than the other but I've found them great projectors.

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Dave

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