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Topic: 4K is it just me !!!
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted June 30, 2015 06:29 AM
Like all displays, Mark, as you know, the set-up, calibration and source material is crucial in achieving good results, and rarely would an in-store demo give you a real idea of potential.
It's a fact that all displays, screen or projector need calibration for a good image and non are really very convincing "out-of-the-box" as they are usually set for maximum impact rather than a considered image.
Of course, a lot of displays just aren't really capable of a good, filmic image, or even just a good image, but that's just my personal opinion!
4K can only be a good thing, but like so many advances, the more there is to play with, the more horribly wrong it can look if set up badly.
4K or Ultra HD Blu-ray spec is now finalized and discs will start arriving later this year. Of course there will be teething problems, like HD before it, not least the lack of addressing any uniform HDR specs. But, for example, if a movie is photographed on film negative, it should look better than HD since the resolution is closer to the negative source.
Of course, HD itself with a good Blu-ray and decent, calibrated display is stunning. It's (almost) like finally running a 35mm print at home, so personally I'm not desperate to move to 4K, but as a format it only has potential to improve things when handled properly.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler
Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted June 30, 2015 08:08 AM
Agree, Rob -- today's technology does achieve absolutely stunning results, and it's like having 35mm (or better) in the home. Love film, and always have, but there's no denying the leaps and bounds in terms of presentation quality, both in image and sound, of today's technology over film. Plus, the same old film titles in circulation are the same ones I've been seeing in the market for the last 40-plus years. It's great to screen movies that aren't (at least, legitimately) available on Super 8, and via a whole host of sources, both physical and "in the cloud."
In my mind, it's absolutely the best time to be in the movie hobby -- as long as one doesn't obsessively pine for "the way things were" ad nauseum.
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted June 30, 2015 10:00 AM
Andrew, at the risk of going a little off-topic, and, as I'm sure you are aware, pre-stripe ended around the early 1990's (Kodak decided that it was environmentally unfriendly, although general consensus is that it was wasteful and cost them too much).
Derann's efforts in post-striping polyester were bold and largely successful, although efforts toward the end (arguably, throughout) although valiant, were, well, let us just say, "variable".
Again, I'm sure you know all of this, and Derann produced many stunning prints with marvellous soundtracks (on a good day) that quite simply wouldn't have existed in that very "video" age of the 1980's and even 1990's.
And I'm sure most here would agree that we are ever thankful that they did, allowing us to enjoy big screen entertainment at home which far exceeded the video equivalent at that time.
But, as far as I'm aware, Derann were without a laboratory for the last two years or so of their super 8 production; the remaining large batch of stock was ordered before the lab was forced to close by the commercial television production company that owned it.
As a result, much of that order was, ahum, hurried, with variable picture quality resulting.
Derann did pull the plug, but they were forced into an unviable financial position with difficult (or non) production of film, reduced demand and, sadly, social conditions cica 2011 in this country (riots and increased premises insurance), all of which stacked up against them.
They also were a TV and all things video related retailer, but sadly, this wasn't enough.
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Dominique De Bast
Film God
Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted June 30, 2015 10:23 AM
Rob, there is no doubt that since the video has been introduced on a large scale for general public, film related items has seen its sales declined each year. However, in the case of the two companies you quoted, together with the dropp of sales, it seems that other factors interfer : Kodak, at least, that's the explanation we got at that time, didn't decide that prestriped stock was an environmental problem but has to follow new US rules about that (maybe an American member can confirm or give us another version) while in Derann's case it seems that new local taxes killed the business. Whatever, we lost super 8 sound cartriges and an amazing super 8 and 16 mm releaser (if that word exists). You cannot change history but I would think, like Andrew that things could have last some years more without these external interférences. Who knows ?
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Dominique
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted June 30, 2015 11:10 AM
Hi, Dominique, just to clarify couple of things.
Kodak discontinued stock magnetic pre-stripe stock material for the purposes of printing super 8 "package movies", as they are known here, ie: versions of theatrical movies on the super 8 gauge, in the early 1990's.
This did not affect cartridges of super 8 pre-stripe film camera film at that time.
Pre-stripe super 8 printing film and pre-stripe camera film were very a different thing.
The loss of pre-stripe camera film came later, when Kodak decided that they didn't want to bother with that either, for whatever reasons...
Also, I think that Derann's efforts in releasing super 8 feature films extended a good 20 years beyond the reasonable life expectancy of this format.
I think that we should discuss super 8 print material and camera material separately, as they are, indeed, very different things!
So I don't think that arguing about super print production longevity at this point is really sensible with regards to Derann producing prints of theatrical releases as she was logistically finished, indeed outliving her remit and gaving us film collectors many happy memories and prints to cherish.
Although we can now discuss Andec...
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted June 30, 2015 12:07 PM
Dominique, there were different film stocks produced for printing and camera use.
I'm just a bit busy over the next few days, but, if you give me a week or so, I'll check my facts and try to post what I know about the printing stocks and camera stocks, which should prove an interesting discussion.
Basically, about 1990, Kodak left Derann stranded without the ability to provide printing stock for movie releases (double 8mm / 16mm stock with suitable 8mm perfs but NO mag stripe).
But printing stock for 8mm release prior to that was generally 16mm, then cut into 2 x 8mm prints and sound recorded at high speed, with all the relevant mag stripes in place pre-exposure.
Pre-striping is always the best solution, as post-striping is difficult post chemical submersion; messy, less stable and difficult to predict.
Derann really triumphed against all odds here, producing post-stripe that often equalled, and in some cases, surpassed it's origins.
It is so funny to realise that many folk really don't know just what Derann accomplished in the early 1990'swith regard to sound.
I will dig deep and add some more about this under a different topic! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 01, 2015 05:12 AM
Yes, apologies for going totally off topic! One last word on that subject, I wish Ged Jones could join us here on the forum as he would be a wealth of knowledge.
Back to 4K, and a summary of HDR, which could be just as important as all those extra pixels;
http://www.techradar.com/news/television/hdr-welcome-to-the-next-big-s hift-in-home-entertainment-1280990
Just to add some context to the whole 4K thing as well; in 2011 most broadcasters moved to HD as a standard for cameras. I have to say that of all the previous video formats (DVCam, BetaCam, etc.) the Sony XDCam which I use now is by far the best camera I've owned.
One of the reasons is that it is a format which feels like you could be shooting film, with much better contrast range than any previous video format. Indeed, as part of the camera set-up, you use "knee" references, just like using an old film chart.
However, despite all of this, much of the regional BBC transmission output is even now still only SD! Go figure...
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