8mm Forum: film guard or film renew

This is topic film guard or film renew in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on June 29, 2003, 07:49 AM:

hi everone since we do not have the old fourm to rely on anymore I would just like everybody's opinion on these two cleaners again, and there applications also which is best for the magnetic track and splices? and for 16mm which is best? thanks [Smile]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 29, 2003, 10:56 AM:

Jim,
I'm a huge fan of FilmGuard. I'm slowly working through cleaning the entire collection with it, and I'll probably be able to do it using just one container (The instructions say one ounce would clean an entire full length 35mm feature). I believe it does a great job cleaning & conditioning the film and at the same time lubricates the film path as the print is being screened.
I was looking at an old standard 8mm print a while back and the Bolex-Paillard was making a clacking noise in addition to having difficulty maintaining the loop. With the projector still running, I applied FilmGuard to a cloth and gently wrapped it around the film as it was leaving the feed reel. No more loop problems, no more annoying noises.
There are two things to be aware of. If you run a film right after application there will be some slight streaking on the image. This will vanish by the second run or if the film is allowed to air dry. Normally I clean a print the day before a screening.
The second bit has to do with tape splices. If too much FilmGuard is applied, the splice will come off. When cleaning, I'm very careful not to overdue it.
Another nice quality that FilmGuard has is that the protective coating is good for approximately one year!
Doug

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 29, 2003, 04:14 PM:

The Cresclean product that Phil sells at Classic Home Cinema is in my opinion just as good as FilmRenew. It has two advantages as far as I can see and that is that it doesnt attack plastic and doesnt cause tape splices to fall apart. It has completely removed some light scratches on a couple of my films and makes noisy green film just glide through my GS1200.
Worth a try and no I dont get anything from Phil for saying all this. It's just that I have tried a number of cleaner/lubricants over the years and this is now my all round favourite. [Smile]

Kevin.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on June 30, 2003, 02:01 AM:

What about VITAFILM? Anyone try it?
Is FILMGUARD safe on magnetic sound tracks?

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on June 30, 2003, 02:02 AM:

What about VITAFILM? Anyone try it?
Is FILMGUARD safe on magnetic sound tracks?

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 30, 2003, 09:35 AM:

Brad,
Mag sound prints make up the majority of my collection. I've found the heads actually stay cleaner since using FilmGuard.
The FilmGuard site is:
http://www.film-tech.com/filmcleaning/filmguard1.html
Doug

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 30, 2003, 04:35 PM:

Again, I go along with what Doug says in that even using the Crescalen product I find that I get far less oxide build up on my GS heads. I think all these lubricants help to keep the stripe smooth so that it glides over the heads better.
Kevin.

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on July 01, 2003, 06:34 AM:

Great thanks for all your input guys [Smile]

Posted by Henry Perangelo (Member # 40) on July 01, 2003, 09:01 AM:

I use both products. When I get a old print I give it a good cleaning with FilmRenew. This stuff is strong. If the print has a "twist" or "curl" I reverse wind and soak the print in FilmRenew anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 months (depending how bad it is). This soaking may cause splices to release, which in my opinion; is good because I like to replace all splices on a print I purchase. Once the print is "clean", I only use FilmGuard once every 6 months (or so). I feel FilmGuard is the best product for maintaining a good running print. I even apply FilmGuard to new prints.

-Henry-

Posted by Richard Clark (Member # 63) on July 01, 2003, 04:06 PM:

I have found that SILICONE OIL is very good at lubricating film and it also mixes with isopropanal so that it can be used as a cleaner and lubricant for the films .
Apparently Kodak use silicone oil to lubricate films also its optically clear.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Posted by Richard Clark (Member # 63) on July 01, 2003, 04:07 PM:

I have found that SILICONE OIL is very good at lubricating film and it also mixes with isopropanal so that it can be used as a cleaner and lubricant for the films .
Apparently Kodak use silicone oil to lubricate films also its optically clear.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Posted by Chris Cottrill (Member # 47) on July 01, 2003, 07:46 PM:

I had a problem with FILMGUARD but to be honest I slopped it on way too heavy. I can get away with that with FILMRENU but not FILMGUARD. Apparently FILMGUARD is very very slick and lubricating and if a film gets too slick it will not hold a steady focus in the projector's gate. This is what happened to me and I had to clean all the stuff off with RTI FILM CLEANER and start over. I used to be a major fan of VITAFILM and am anxious to try it again. Will be happy to give a report once I've tried the new version of it.

When I was a kid we used to use Old English Lemon Furniture Polish (which smells and acts a lot like FILMGUARD). Did anyone else ever try that back in the 70s?

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on July 02, 2003, 06:06 AM:

is film gaurd safe to use on polyester films? if not how do you determine if you have this type of film? [Smile]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on July 02, 2003, 06:08 AM:

Chris, please read the directions that came with your kit of FilmGuard. If you don't have them I can email them to you. In there it stresses how concentrated FilmGuard is. Remember, 1 ounce is enough to clean a feature length 35mm film. A single quart bottle would probably last an 8mm collector years and years.

Also, if you put it on too thick, you can simply wipe off the excess with a dry cloth between rewinds. There is no need to pull out another cleaner.

FilmGuard does not damage magnetic film, it greatly helps it. It stops the magnetic oxide from flaking off which prevents dropouts. Also it prevents the buildup of oxide on the heads. Combining both of these qualities and you will be able to hear the difference. [Smile]

Yes, FilmGuard is polyester safe.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 03, 2003, 02:29 AM:

I've still got several years supply of Thermofilm left. Anyone found anything that compares with it?

Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on July 03, 2003, 01:44 PM:

Richard,
It has been a long time since I use silicone oil to grease my films. It is without danger for films, it makes them less noisy, the image does not jump and for the magnetic sound films it reduces the wear of the magnetic heads. [Smile]

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on July 03, 2003, 02:08 PM:

Obviously sensible precautions should be taken when handling any chemically based product however none of the products I have seen give any indication of the active ingredients.

Does anyone know if there are any particularly harmful substances contained therein?

Tony [Smile]

Posted by Richard Clark (Member # 63) on July 03, 2003, 02:37 PM:

Thats what i seem to have found Antoine the films seem to run a lot better and when i heard that silicone is inert to film and kodak use it in their cartridges to lubricate film i thought why not try some.
Wonder if anyone else has more comments on this ?

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on July 03, 2003, 03:51 PM:

how about the dangers of both is one safer to use in a closed area then the other? and what happens to clothing if you spill filmgaurd or renew? [Razz]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 03, 2003, 05:38 PM:

I find that FilmGuard's incredible cleaning properties cleans even embedded dirt off of my pants and forms a thin protective coating which covers up many rips in the knee area. It's even good on polyester pants.
Sorry Jim, had to go for the joke. [Wink]

Doug

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on July 03, 2003, 07:10 PM:

Doug, It might be better to change your pants daily. [Wink]

Kev.

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on July 03, 2003, 09:01 PM:

Can the small machines be obtained somewhere to do this job right? [Smile]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 03, 2003, 10:19 PM:

Jim,
The device pictured next to the FilmGuard container is a Kelmar dry web media cleaner. Their catalog (without prices) can be found at:
http://www.kelmarsystems.com/pdf/guidance.pdf
I prefer the old cloth in the hand between the rewinds method myself.
Doug

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on July 04, 2003, 01:09 PM:

The Kelmar cleaners are easily modified to run 16mm or 8mm film. All you have to do is remove the spacer between the drive wheel's flanges, mount it on the outside of the drive wheel and replace the bolts with longer ones. Then put washers or nuts on the two bolts in between the drive wheel flanges to achieve the proper distance depending on the gauge you want to run. About $2 and 10 minutes of your time.

Posted by Paul Suchy (Member # 80) on July 19, 2003, 08:41 PM:

I guess I'm the only one who likes the Ecco 1500 Anti-static film cleaner; I "borrowed" some when I was a theatre manager, and it did wonders for my prints. To lubricate black and white prints and gate cleaning, I use XeKote. I heard somewhere that the wax-based cleaners suffocate films by sealing them and not allowing them to breathe-any thoughts on this?

Posted by Richard Clark (Member # 63) on July 20, 2003, 10:46 AM:

I have found a remarkable side effect to using fine optical grade silicone oil as a lubricant on films as it seems to make the mag tracks glide through the heads with no brown dust coming off any more! this has got to mean that there is less wear on the mag tracks!.
Also when i say silicone oil i dont mean that thick stuff it has to be really thin like water and just put a squirt on a cotton cloth and run through the rewind arms .

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on July 21, 2003, 02:26 AM:

Richard, where can this optical grade silicon oil be purchased from?

Tony

Posted by Richard Clark (Member # 63) on July 21, 2003, 01:47 PM:

Hi Tony with regards to the fine grade silicone oil our company buys this direct from an electrolube distributor such as RS
visit: www.rswww.com/
I dont think you need an account just phone order using a credit card and here is rs part number: 331-1959
And here is the technical data :

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: Silicone Oil Aerosol DATE: 02/99

PRODUCT CODE: OSL400 PAGES: 1

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

Electrolube’s Silicone Oil Aerosol is a high quality multi-purpose mechanical lubricant. The Silicone Oil Aerosol is 100% Ozone Friendly.

PRODUCT USE

For all general and light duty mechanical lubrication purposes. One brief spray of OSL gives long term lubrication on line printers, keyboards, platens, bearings etc. Silicone Oil Aerosol may also be used as a release agent in moulding and casting operations. May be used both at work and home. Do not use near electrical contacts or motor brushes. Product contains flammable solvent therefore do not spray onto live electrical equipment or other sources of ignition.

FEATURES

* High quality silicone spray.

* Excellent water repellency.

* Excellent electrical insulating compound and sealant.

* Excellent lubricant with good adhesion.

* Available in aerosol form for quick, clean and efficient application.

TYPICAL PROPERTIES (of the deposited oil)

Colour: Colourless

Specific Gravity: 0.90

Flash Point: >250°C

Viscosity (at 20°C): 200cSt

Pour Point: <-45°C

PACKAGING ORDER CODE

400ml Aerosol OSL400

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on July 21, 2003, 04:20 PM:

Richard,

Thanks for taking such trouble with the posting. Much appreciated. By the description it would seem to have many uses around the home!

Tony

Posted by Richard Clark (Member # 63) on July 24, 2003, 02:10 PM:

Ok Tony thats no problem but let me know how you get on if you try this product as i think you will be amazed
Best Regards Richard...

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on July 27, 2003, 10:44 AM:

Sounds like excellent stuff. May give it a try myself. I use isoprop for cleaning muck off my films so adding some of this sounds like a great idea especially as the isoprop evapourates very quickly.
Have you had to re-apply at all or does it seem to last for a long time. How long have you been using this combination.
It may also be available from Maplin Electronic's who have various stores arround the UK. I will check that one out.

Kevin.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on July 27, 2003, 11:45 AM:

Kev,

I am a cresclean man given that it hides the old running lines really well (BTW Duncan I also use the Derann product!!) but will give this a try as well- Richard, do you find it has a similar impact on those fine black lines?

Tony [Cool]

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on July 27, 2003, 12:06 PM:

Hi-
What is the best way to apply the lubricant? When I use to work in a film prep lab, we use to have the reels on the table and it was easy, wind slowly and then apply with a cloth. These little square ones we use to get at Christies Editorial in Hollywood. But now that I am in my home, what is the best way that you guys can recommend? I don't have room for rewinds here.
Suggestions?

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on July 27, 2003, 05:10 PM:

What about an old projector that you don't use for watching films? Like an old Keystone or GAF?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on July 27, 2003, 06:17 PM:

I just use my Goko RM8008 editor and wind the film from spool to spool slowly between some soft cloth soaked with Cresclean.
Works really well and this editor takes 1200ft spools.

Kevin.

Posted by Richard Clark (Member # 63) on July 28, 2003, 05:44 PM:

What i do is use a ELMO 912 editor to clean my films by using the arms as a rewinding tool.
I always clean the films with isopropanol first and then check the film on the editor and then lubricate using the optical lubricant applied to a cloth(cotton).
Also the little guide rolers on projectors and editors really benefit from a squirt from this lubricant as it cant hurt the film as silicone is inert to film .
Best Regards
Richard..

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on July 29, 2003, 08:55 AM:

Hey guys- just wanted to point out something for those that may have been experiencing the same problem as me.

In the past year or two, I was having severe shaking problems with certain films. It seemed worse with recently processed kodachrome film and recent releases from Classic Home Cinema.
For some reason, the Derann films run perfectly fine. (My Sankyo ST-800 is very sensitive, as I didn't have this problem on my Canon Cano-sound projector).

Anyway, under the advise of Steve Osborne / Reel Image, I purchased and applied Filmrenew onto these problem films. After this, the films ran perfectly!

FYI- The way I apply the Filmrenew is that I wind the film onto a metal reel and hold a lint - free cloth with the liquid on it. I usually put more liquid on the cloth every 100 feet or so, depending on how badly the film was jumping. I then leave the film (wound backward) on the metal reel for about two days. I then rewind it back onto the original reel (no wiping necessary) and its done!

I'm not sure if this is the best way, but it seems to work just fine for me. Nick.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 29, 2003, 12:24 PM:

Alan,
I don't have much room either but I wanted to use rewinds to save projector wear and tear & for cleaning. I bought a pair of Craig 16mm rewinds on eBay for $20 and ordered the 16mm/Super 8 brass adaptors from The Reel Image. I took two 23"x 8" shelves and joined them lengthwise with a 3" hinge. With the rewinds mounted at the edge of the shelves I have a portable rewind table with a distance of 40" between rewinds that folds up for storage. I use FilmGuard on soft cotton cloth strips which I change(depending on the film's condition) approx every 150'.
Doug

[ July 29, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

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