8mm Forum: My First Post

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Posted by Ronnie Coeuhant (Member # 143) on January 11, 2004, 11:52 PM:

Hello to all,

I've been lurking on this forum for a while. I didn't want to post because I own a Beaulieu 708EL. I know almost everyone here are using Elmos.

Well not anymore. Today, I picked up an Elmo GS-1200. It is almost in unused condition. The thread lock adhesive for the lens adjustments are untouched. The projector is using the original Elmo brand bulb. I closely looked at the back cover screws and are still untouched. As I opened the back, the compartment is clean like new and the grease are light yellow with no dust on the fan. The date on the motor shows "July 1984".

I understand there are several versions of the GS-1200. What version could this be? The loop lock is facing rearwards with lines on the knobs.

If there is anyone who wants to know the original set-up of a new Elmo, please post or email me. I can take pictures.

Too bad, the lens is a 1.1. I could have sold the lens if it is 1.0. [Smile]

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on January 12, 2004, 12:21 AM:

Welcome!
I have been wanting to get a Beaulieu 708 EL for some time now. How do you feel it compares with your new Elmo?

Posted by Ronnie Coeuhant (Member # 143) on January 12, 2004, 01:37 AM:

I haven't compared the images of the Beaulieu and the Elmo yet since I just got the Elmo today. However, what I can tell you is about the physical aspect of the projectors - like build quality, materials, and general design.

On build quality and material used, it is like night and day. The materials used on the Elmo are much better. Everything is like precision work - quality of the knobs, the fit, external finish. For example, I partly erased the "Beaulieu" marking of of the Beaulieu by just by rubbing it with an alcohol. The exterior is painted and not powder coated as on the Elmo. The back of the Beaulieu is made of thin plastic and can easily crack or break. The bottom of the beaulieu is covered with about 1/16" of metal plate or about 1.5mm. One of the leg is sitting right under this plate with no support! So you'll end up with a bent bottom plate. I have seen another Beaulieu and it shows the same problem.

Design-wise is totally different. The Elmo is too complex. There is so many mechanical parts. So many moving parts. It seems like too many things could go wrong. As you open the back of the Elmo, it is packed. The Beaulieu design is so simple. Anyone can assembly one if they sell them as a kit. There are only 2 motors on the Beaulieu. Perhaps that's what made it so simple. Some say this is bad. Some say this is good. The gate of the Beaulieu is much easier to clean since it is all accessible at the front by just pushing some parts.

I'm planning to compare the 2 for gate size (opening) and image stability. I read somewhere the gate opening of the Beaulieu is larger and is very close to the exposed frame of a Super 8 camera. Also, it projects each frame longer than the Elmo making the image appear brighter. I wish I can compare the 2 on brightness but I don't have the tools and I think Ugo has already done that. I'm not going to make my test too scientific. I'll just buy 2 similar films and project them side by side.

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on January 12, 2004, 02:07 AM:

Hi Ronnie,
welcome!
Gianni and I made the test on the Beaulieu too.
264 lux on position II.

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on January 12, 2004, 03:21 AM:

Hi Ronnie,
Welcome to the forum, Can you post the serial number as i would be interested in how it corosponds to the date on the motor. Yes, Elmos are very popular i have two ST-1200s and they are built like a tank, very good machines.
Welcome again, Chris.

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on January 12, 2004, 04:28 AM:

Hi Ronnie and welcome to the board.

Beaulieu, Elmo, Eumig, etc as long as they are kind to the films and you get enjoyment from them, it doesn't matter what projector you use. I think a good number of the GS users on this forum gradually 'upgraded' to Elmo. I know I did and it took me over 20 years to get the GS.
Mal

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on January 12, 2004, 05:24 AM:

Both are excellent machines. Personally, I have a preference towards the 708EL. In my testing I feel it handles the film a bit better than the GS1200 and besides being able to handle 2000 foot reels, it's build of mostly metal vs. the Elmo's plastic parts makes it ideal to upgrade to a better light source. Because the film can exit the projector in the front, using an external film transport permits an outboard xenon lamphouse to mount behing the projector. I have used up to 2000 watt xenons behind the Beaulieu with incredible performance in large auditoriums.

Posted by Ronnie Coeuhant (Member # 143) on January 12, 2004, 10:48 AM:

Thank you all for the welcome message. To answer some of the inquiries:

The serial number is: 831592

I agree with Brad on the front side of the 708EL. The 708EL has a huge lamp housing at the front that is suitable for mods. There is more metal on the front side - molded metal instead of stamped sheets as on the GS-100. Also, the black plastics used on the 708EL appears to be fibruous PES material (Polyethersulphone). From my experience in handling semiconductor IC's, this material is more resistant to higher temperature.

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on January 12, 2004, 12:29 PM:

Well Ronnie, looks like you got a version 3 one of the last ones made, NICE! [Wink]

Posted by Ronnie Coeuhant (Member # 143) on January 12, 2004, 12:56 PM:

Hi Chris,

Are there big differences between Versions 1, 2, and 3? What are the differences and how do you determine the version from the projector, eg. manufacturing date or serial number?

Thanks.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on January 12, 2004, 01:25 PM:

Hi Ronnie,

Welcome. If you don't mind me asking, where did you find this perfect example? Sounds fantastic. It is a bit of an Elmo forum but I do have a Sankyo!

Brad- what's your views on the ST1200 range?

Tony

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on January 12, 2004, 03:44 PM:

ST1200 is a great machine too if you are going to be using it as an exhibition projector. (I say that because if memory serves it cannot record in sterero, only reproduce.) It's biggest limitation in my books is that the largest lamp you can put in it is a Marc350. Still, I ran many shows on them. Even more shows were ran on a ST600, which is virtually the same machine with a smaller reel size. I think I've still got that modified ST600 sitting around in storage.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 12, 2004, 05:26 PM:

Definitely is a ver 3 machine.
Once again here are the diffs between the Versions.

1)Forward facing loop restore lever and fixed black plastic roller at the input of the 1st sprocket. Dots on the vol and tone knobs. No takeup motor control board.

2)Forward facing loop restore lever and silver moving roller at the input to the 1st sprocket. Dots on the vol and tone knobs. Incorporates the takeup motor control board.

3)Ver 2 mods plus redesigned film path. Rear facing loop restore lever and lines on the vol & tone controls.

I also believe that only the ver 2 & 3 machines allow use of the ESS system on 18 FPS as well as 24 FPS (only 24 on ver 1), but I may be wrong about that. There were minor changes in spec between the versions electrically but I think that some were due to availabilty of components. One prob which occurs in the ver 1 machine was the buring out of the rectifier diodes for the main motor regulated supply. The diodes were uprated in the later 2 & 3 versions. Bad motor regulation or intermittent operation with eventual failure is often due to these four diodes. [Frown]

Hope that all helps. Kev. [Smile]

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on January 13, 2004, 06:25 AM:

Welcome to the forum Ronnie!

I was starting to wonder if I was the only soul on the forum that does not own an Elmo [Confused]

Thanks Tony! I, too, am the proud owner of a Sankyo. I might pick up an Elmo some day if the right deal comes my way at the right time. But until then, the Sankyo is just fine.

Nick.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on January 13, 2004, 12:02 PM:

This has really become a bit of an Elmo forum lately but I'm enjoying that [Smile]

Like you James and Tony I also have a Sankyo and must agree they are great machines and perhaps a little underated on the super 8 scene?

Kev', thanks for the description of the various versions, I always assumed that my GS was a version 1 but I'm thinking now that it might be a version 2 which adds a little Keudos [Wink]

I shall have to go and check it out!

Ronnie, Welcome by the way [Smile]

this is a great forum, great guys with a fantastic knowledge base and even a sense of humour, what more could you ask for?

Right, I'm off to see if I can make a two bladed shutter with the top of this corned beef tin [Razz]

Mike.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on January 14, 2004, 02:38 AM:

Mike, make sure you completely remove the key from the top of the tin before cutting into a two-bladed shutter arrangement. The extra weight caused by the key has been known to cause problems on some modified GS-1200's.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 14, 2004, 09:00 AM:

Good info there John. I once had to sort out a GS for a guy who cut a shutter from his corned beef can and then complained of this funy shaddow acorss the picture. Yes the key had shot off and lodged itself at the back of the gate. Hee hee hee [Razz]

I have heard it told that the bottom of a scotch bottle placed behind the gate helps to concentrate the light right onto the gate area!!! [Wink]

I do agree with Mike, the last Sankyo range of sound machines were very good machines and performed well. The Sankyo 800 would be my pref between the Elmo and Sankyo 800's The Sankyo has a higher lamp output and the sound quality is much better with more control etc. Dont forget that these machines were also rebadged as Bell & Howells but I dont think the 800 was. They also seem to be wearing well in terms of wear on guides etc and have good reliability. [Smile]

They were a good alternative to the more expensive Elmo equivalents.
Kev.

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