8mm Forum: Fade

This is topic Fade in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000702

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on September 02, 2004, 05:44 AM:

Chaps,
This may well have cropped up before on the forum so forgive me. I was intrigued by Trevor's recent film sale of B/W's where he mentioned that there was a degree of fade.
Fade with colour prints is noticeable but I was curious about how fade affects B/W films, how you notice it, what causes it and if the fade progresses with time or further exposure to light etc.

Tony

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on September 02, 2004, 06:16 AM:

Well I have product in 16mm and Std8 and very early S8 and if fade is a problem then its something that you must be able to only measure with electronic test equipment,as all mine look sparkling when screened.
Everything wears out and indeed films do fade,I personally dont think people are going to go into a blind panic over this one,whats more I feel the British Film Institute would agree as their archive is phenominal and the product committed to DVD or whatever for study and physical wear prevention.Bet they wont be around in a hundred years time!(The DVDs not the archive!!)

Posted by Steven Sigel (Member # 21) on September 02, 2004, 07:23 AM:

I've never heard of a B&W print fading. I've got many prints in my collection that are 50-70 years old. None of them look even remotely faded... Maybe if a film wasn't processed properly?

Posted by David Michael Leugers (Member # 166) on September 02, 2004, 07:49 AM:

I have never really witnessed any fading in a black and white film. I have, unfortunately, witnessed the dreaded vinegar syndrome due to improper processing. I lost one of my most favorite films, a 16mm amber print made in the early 1930's of a William S. Hart 2 reeler. In time the print became unprojectable and it continued into a severe warpage that was hard to believe. I had tried many things to stop the vinegar syndrome, but to no avail. Even when I tossed it out, you could hold the film up to a light and see the beautiful sharp image from a film made 90 years ago. Bummer...

David M. Leugers

Posted by Rob Koeling (Member # 35) on September 02, 2004, 10:26 AM:

I suppose it could be a B&W film printed on pre-LPP Eastman color stock. If the green's and blue's are disappearing, the black's will turn red. Sounds terrible....

- Rob (a big fan of nice B&W cinematography)

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on September 02, 2004, 11:19 AM:

Hi I don`t think with Trevors mention of fade thats what it is as such.
Its just that he is such a good decent chap and they are probaly not absolutely A1 print wise, odd light face etc but I`d think probaly pretty damn good going by Dealings with Trevor and most people omit much in the way of proper description but trev goes the other way and I`m sure they will be much better than his ad looks.
Much of the cruddy std 8 and super 8 stuff does have a look as if its faded sort of, just the naff origional printing or material etc.
Best Mark.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on September 02, 2004, 11:38 AM:

Mark,

I really should have pointed that out in the opening post-I fully agree with what you have said re Trevor-he is one of the best chaps I have dealt with in my short cine career and as you say his descriptions tend to be very cautous indeed.

It was really just the use of the word that caught my attention.

I should also mention that I raise it only as a point of interest and I am certainly not in a state of panic!

Thanks for your replies

Posted by Ian O'Reilly (Member # 76) on September 02, 2004, 01:48 PM:

Welcome home Tony, I trust Spain was to your liking and my bottle of plonk travelled well. [Razz]

The forum has been noticably quiet in your absence.
Now how about one of your engaging topics to get it all going again.
Regards
A very sober
Ian [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on September 02, 2004, 02:09 PM:

Hi Tony Spain eh!!!!!! I went to safeway recently for a trip, it was pretty exciting mind as they had changed to morrisons all of a sudden like.
On the Trev bit no worries I was just rambling away as usual.
Best Mark.

How much do you charge for two weeks inclusive in your shed Ian by the way????????

Posted by Ian O'Reilly (Member # 76) on September 02, 2004, 02:33 PM:

Full board or bed and breakfast .....!!

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on September 02, 2004, 02:59 PM:

How many beds and whats for breakfast Ian!! [Wink]

Tony can you contact me please. [Frown]

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on September 02, 2004, 03:03 PM:

You wouldn't get much sleep in Ians shed [large West London Cine Storage Facility] what with the air conditioning units rumbling away and the security guards pacing up and down the corridors of racked and catalogued films. [Razz]

Mike

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on September 02, 2004, 05:26 PM:

...not to mention the 747's Lol! Only kidding Ian!! [Big Grin]

How's the Yank? (Not to offend our friends across the 'pond' I'm referring to a large car!) [Roll Eyes]

.
Rick

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on September 02, 2004, 05:35 PM:

Well I will put my Ilford Films hat back on [Wink]

True black and white film is made with silver halide which when exposed and then processed leaves an image made up of solid silver.
In fact it is possible to extract the silver back of the film before disposal as silver is obviously worth money.
In light of this (no pun intended) it is not very likely for the image to fade. What can happen over a period of years is oxidisation of the silver image which will show up as a reflective look to the silver image or even to the point where it can turn milky looking or of course sepia but these tend to only happen these days if the fixing of the silver image was badly done or very poor storage.
So yes a possible change in colour but not a fade situation.
If it was indeed printed on colour stock then it will of course be likely to fade or change colour and while we are on this topic lets not forget that all normal substantive tripak colour coupler type colour film will fade eventually even LPP. LPP stands for "low fade" not "no fade" even the Agfa and Fuji stocks will eventually fade. What Ilford and no doubt other manufactures did was to try and make film where the 3 dye layers faded at the same rate so that the film got lighter over the years instead of changing colour. The eye is far more tollerant to a density shift comparred to a colour shift.
I rest my case [Wink]

Kev.
Now where's my Ilford Manual of Photograhy gone!!!

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on September 03, 2004, 10:54 AM:

Hello Uncle Ian,

Sorry to hear you have been unwell (how did you find sober?)-don't worry I have a bottle of Spanish sunshine (Gran Reserva no less) for you here. Just hope we meet soon before it goes off and has to be drunk....

Looking forward to seeing the new highly organised and tidy shed now that the illegal immigrants have left!

Tony

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on September 04, 2004, 05:20 AM:

Hi Ian,
Your shed sound fascinating, can't wait to view this hi tech storage facility of yours. Hope to visit soon with the Lightwater gang. hopefully sooner than later.

Chris.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2