8mm Forum: Elmo Sound Problems??

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Posted by David Stiby (Member # 271) on October 16, 2004, 06:04 PM:

Hi!
I´m having a sound problem with my elmo st180 projector.
As the film roll the sound is swaying up and down, just a little bit but still very anoying.

I´m now thinking of buying a Emlo 1200D or HD, but I´m affraid that it will suffer the same unstable sound problem as the one I´ve got.

Anybody else out there been having similar sound problems on a 1200HD or D or with any elmo projector?

David

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on October 17, 2004, 03:08 AM:

I've had 1200's for about 20 years now and to date i have never had a sound problem with the magnetic sound side.
I have the magnetic/optical sound version and have had an ic go down on me but only for the optical sound which doesnt bother me too much as i only have three optical features now and wont be colecting anymore, but the 1200's are excellent work horses and relatively easy to work on. [Wink]

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on October 17, 2004, 05:08 AM:

Hi David,

Welcome to the forum. How did you find us?
Sorry to hear of your problems- a word from Mr Elmo here should help.
ST's? Built like tanks.

Tony

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on October 17, 2004, 05:23 AM:

sound like 'em also!

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on October 17, 2004, 09:47 AM:

Hi and welcome to the forum.

The problem you describe could be "WOW and FLUTTER" and I have had a major problem with that recently on one of my ST1200HD and it will need repair by a tech. It could be one of many things. I suggest you look at the prints you are running. Some of the product out there could have garbaled sound caused in the recording process, in which case it's the print you are running and the machine is reacting to it. You could also have a speed problem with the machine and yes that could be serious.

Stay tuned for more information on this, we should be able to offer some insight to your problem. I have had Elmo ST1200 machines for nearly 21 years and all of them are, as said already, great work horses. The one that needs repair now, is the first one since 1998 so I am happy with them. You are making a good choice if you can find one. Just make sure you change the belts when you find one, and keep the machine clean for best performance.

Chip Gelmini
Cape Cod USA

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 17, 2004, 12:31 PM:

Chip, spot on. Wow and flutter can be a problem on these machines.
Worn pinch roller, bad take-up, insufficiant pinchroller presure, worn belts unstable motor and so the list goes on.
I think with the ST180 you should check for worn drive belts and also varying take-up tension before looking elsewhere. I have known the ST600/180 machines to suffer from speed control problems so that cant be ruled out but does tend to give a more "slow wow" if that makes sense.
Wmail me direct if you want any further help.

Kev.

Posted by David Stiby (Member # 271) on October 18, 2004, 11:07 AM:

Thanks guys for the replys! Now I feel a little more confident in buying one of these ST1200´s.
About the 180, it´s just like kevin wrote, "slow wows", about 1-2 wows per second I think. The fault is definately in the projector cause the tensionarm is moving up and down right in sync with all the wows in the sound. And the wows are on all reels, that I´ve purchased from different people.

Tony, I´m not really shure how I found this page, but I was probably searching for Elmo´s or some movie title and ended up here.
However I´m glad I did, cause you all seems to be very nice people.

David

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on October 18, 2004, 11:46 AM:

I had a similar problem on a GS-1200 recently but cured it by pulling the rubber wheel off the fly wheel. Amazing what you can do with a bit of sticky tape.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on October 18, 2004, 11:48 AM:

David

Don't be fooled- take a look at Mike Peckham! [Frown]

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on October 18, 2004, 12:12 PM:

Tony

Are you casting nasturtions? [Wink]

Mike

ps. did you get my email in reply to your email asking if I was getting your emails because I've not had a reply. Or have I...

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 18, 2004, 12:17 PM:

John, what rubber wheel on your GS? Im intrigued. Do you mean the Flywheel drive which shouldnt be touching in playback.
Only the GS has this arrangement. The ST600 get its capstan/flywheel drive from the the film running between the pinchroller and capstan which is why it takes a while for the wow to settle down.
This is a reason why its important to keep the rubber pinch roller clean on the Elmo machines because if they get shiny you do loose some of the grip. This can tend to happen to them with some of the waxy film cleaner lubricants.
The roller should be periodically cleaned with isoprop.

Kev.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on October 18, 2004, 01:32 PM:

John,

Yes I am intrigued also, perhaps you can point it out on Saturday?

For the life of me I can't understand why Elmo produced a superb range of machines and then stuck a cheap and nasty plastic black tensioner that wears out and scratches film. Is there any good reason for this being their? Could it not be replaced with say a rubber roller? Has anyone done this?

Think I will start a new thread....

Mike- Yes I have replied but i am not seeing many emails from you.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on October 19, 2004, 01:59 AM:

Yes, the flywheel drive. It needs adjusting as it was touching during playback but rather than start taking things apart given that I don't know how to adjust it I just lifted it off and have left it off. Makes no difference except for a few seconds of wow and flutter upon startup.

Good tip about cleaning the wheel with Isopropyl.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 19, 2004, 06:28 PM:

Tony, Mr Wilton has done just that on his GS he uses at the BFCC. He has replaced that Black tensioner with one of the roller assays from the ST1200HD and it works very well. The trouble would be trying to get one now.

John, Yes I know what you mean about the roller on the flywheel but without it you do get wow when you start up without that drive to the flywheel and double the wow if you use the machine for recording.
Its a very simple adjustment to do and I wouldnt suggest that other people lift it out of the way or remove it. [Frown]

Kev

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on October 19, 2004, 09:48 PM:

I assume that the purpose of the black tensioner is to smooth out the effects of uneven take up torque on the take up reel shaft. I have noticed WOW on one of my GS1200'S , but if you temporarily put your hand on the take up reel, and let the film spill out from the back of the projector (thus isolating the take up motor torque from the film ) the WOW totally disappears. This proves that the GS1200 design is very susceptible to WOW when the take up motor torque is fluctuating.
How do you correct this problem? According to the Elmo manual, adjusting the tensioning spring force will have no effect on reducing WOW. So how do you fix this problem? Does backlash in the bottom sprocket gears have any effect, and should you adjust the position of the gears to eliminate all backlash?
This is one area where I believe that Eumig projectors are far superior. ALL Eumig projectors, 700, 800, and 900 series, are absolutely free of any perceptible WOW.

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