8mm Forum: Ken Film's "Empire Strikes Back" digest

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Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on October 23, 2004, 12:30 PM:

Hi all.
I've recently purchased a German version, licensed by Ken Films, of this digest. Surprisingly there is no scene where Darth Vader cuts away Luke's hand during the final duel, though there are some excerpts thereof AND, at some point, you see Luke's arm cut at the wrist!
As this print has been heavily tampered with, and several scenes have been edited on a separate reel, I am wondering how is it that this digest, otherwise excellently abridged, has been edited so coarsely right at the topical point. Might it be the previous owner just deleted this scene? Is even a small hint suggesting the cut present in your prints? Or is this the way it should be?
Thanks for any info.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on October 23, 2004, 01:06 PM:

Maurizio-
Yes, the scene where Luke's arm is actually cut off is not in the digest, nor the crucial moment where Darth Vader tells Luke that he is his father. I often wondered about this as well.

This is very similar to the first Star Wars 400 footer, when Darth and Obi Wan are dueling, then, Obi Wan is gone! The scene where Darth actually strikes him with the light saber has been tightly edited out.

I think I read something once about a copyright problem with this particular scene or something.

Do try and get the second 400 extract to Empire Strikes Back. The color on mine is still great (but not on the first reel). These two reels flow very well together.

Nick.

Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on October 23, 2004, 04:49 PM:

==============================================================
This is very similar to the first Star Wars 400 footer, when Darth and Obi Wan are dueling, then, Obi Wan is gone! The scene where Darth actually strikes him with the light saber has been tightly edited out.
===============================================================

James, Maurizio,

the marketing-film 600 feet version has the same storyline of
the first Ken-Films extract. The marketing version also shows
not the scene where Darth actually strikes him with the light saber.

Andreas

[ October 23, 2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on October 24, 2004, 06:16 AM:

It does make you wonder what the editors of these films were thinking at the time, like many other 400footers. Thank goodness for the new generation on 400footers where entire sections are shown rather than bits and pieces. Although to be fair was some where the editing was quite good and kept the story line very well. On the Star Wars cut downs it did begger the question as to why on both the titled didnt they just put those extra few seconds in. Particuly on the first Star Wars. I can only assume the editors at the time did not want to give away the entire plot, if you remember this first 400ft extract was actualy release before the film premiered in this country. [Wink]

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on October 24, 2004, 06:56 AM:

Thank you guys; this reassures me a little.
I was planning to redub this cut down into Italian and use it as a "bridge" from Chapter IV to Chapter VI, which I both own in full length.

But I am afraid it won't be easy: I'll try to edit a video version that match the cut down and then transfer its audio thouroughly.
Cheers

Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on October 24, 2004, 07:39 AM:

Maurizio,

Star Wars: The both Ken Extracts plus the marketing-film version spliced together will give the lenght of an nice three-parter.

Wasn´t in Italy not released a 3 x 60 m digest?

yrs
Andreas

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on October 24, 2004, 01:35 PM:

Hello to all,

Indeed there are many gaps in the 2nd half of the 400' release of Empire,
and what is most questionable is, what happened to Han Solo?

I was not aware of a Marketing release of this film? Does any part of the Marketing version fill in the gaps missing in the Ken release versions?

Speaking about abridgements and cutdowns, is that a toy company named Kenner, sold clips of Star Wars in a picture viewer which you would hold up to the light and hand crank to watch the action. It contained brief color clips on Super 8 film. If I recall, it had Obi Wan and Darth Vader battling with Lasers, Tie Fighters and The Death Star finale all on about 25 - 50 feet of film.

The Second 400' part of Star Wars was released by Ken with the Cantina Scene and the Death Star Battle.

This was good, but very confusing.

Also, years later I had learned that a Scope version of a 400' Star Wars was released in Germany. What's that all about?

Best,
Michael

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on October 24, 2004, 02:03 PM:

Yeas, Andreas, I forgot about the fate of Han Solo: his burying in the carbon is very important, and it's missing too in this digest.
I guess the cut down I have just received was struck from the same negative as the Ken film release.

That was licensed in Italy too, under the label "IE International", and - yes - it wws 3 x 45 meters. From which you can understand it was shorter than the original Ken Films release. MOreover the Italian version is not more tightly edited: it just covers the 3/4ths of other versions, so the last ca. 8 minutes of the digest were never printed in Italy, do not know why. The "Star Wars" digest was broken down into four parts instead but I've never seen it.

Anyway the Italian print by IE International should be avoided: the scenes on the snow are almost completely washed out - all white, perhaps due to some sort of underexposure. The master material used here is dirty with white sparks and hairs etc.

The German version is much better, although mine suffers from a slight reddish cast on the second 400 footer.

Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on October 24, 2004, 02:08 PM:

Micheal,

the marketing version of Star Wars, tells story as the first Ken extract. I´ve had the Ken version some years ago. I rembember
that Ken shows the scene in which Luke und Leia jump over the deep. The marketing doesn´t show it, but it shows the scene
in the garbage crimping machine ( [Eek!]

upps - hope these are the right english words - ) That is, what I remember. I think some more but I do not remember the other Ken scenes.

UFA sold 1980 (with the theatrical starting!!!) the second Ken extract with german sound. The german collectors mixed the marketing and the ufa/ken version.
-> Problem: The picture quality of the marketing version is stunning. very very sharp prints. The ken films are bad against.

The scope version was the second ken extract released as
cineavision print.

yrs
Andreas

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on October 24, 2004, 07:53 PM:

Dear Andreas,

The UFA print sounds interesting, I wish that I could see it too.

Thankyou Andreas, Maurizio, Tom and James too, for the good information.

Best,
Michael

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on October 25, 2004, 02:09 AM:

With regards to "The Empire Strikes Back" Ken Films originally intended to release three 400ft extracts telling the entire story sequentially. This is why the first 400ft is edited so well and doesn't get very far into the story. Unfortunately it became obvious by the time a second extract was due the bottom was dropping out of the market and so they dropped the plans for three extracts and decided to dump the final two-thirds into a single 400ft reel.

At least that's how I recall what happened. It certainly explained why the second extract was so poor by comparison to the first.

Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on October 25, 2004, 04:29 AM:

Hi,

does the two "Empire" extract were published in USA togehter or was the second extract published later than the first?

Publishing date of both parts in Germany:
December 1980 (with the opening of theatrical version)

Andreas

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on October 25, 2004, 06:51 AM:

The second extract came out some time after the first. I remember seeing the Super 8 first extract before I even saw the feature in the cinema, but I think it had an extended run in the West End before it went to the rest of the country. And at the time I was living in a place called Newbury (known locally at the time as a cemetary with lights).

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on October 26, 2004, 02:19 AM:

quote:
Speaking about abridgements and cutdowns, is that a toy company named Kenner, sold clips of Star Wars in a picture viewer which you would hold up to the light and hand crank to watch the action. It contained brief color clips on Super 8 film. If I recall, it had Obi Wan and Darth Vader battling with Lasers, Tie Fighters and The Death Star finale all on about 25 - 50 feet of film.

Yes, there were two versions. The hand-held viewer that you're talking about (using cartridges) and a small projector called "Minicinex" (hand-crank, continuous loop of films on special spools). Have a look at this page

Among other Empire Strikes Back oddities, I have a super 8 200ft "cut-down of the cut-down" that comes with an audio tape for sound...

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on October 26, 2004, 08:21 AM:

Even the Ken Pt. 1 has slightly different versions.

In one, there is a nice fade out just after Luke is attacked by the Wampa, in the other just an abrupt cut.

Also at the end, in some versions there is another couple of shots as the millenium falcon enters the asteroid, in others just an earlier fade out.

Strange to go to the effort of changing such minor things [Confused]

Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on October 26, 2004, 09:02 AM:

Rob,

it was a bestseller on Super8 (thousands of prints). I think the cuts are results of negative damages.

This release was also the only US-8mm-print for that the US-Labs made a german title. Instead of the "The Empire strikes back" - "Das Imperium schlägt zurück".

UFA also sold the original german theatrical trailer, made in US-Labs. See picture

The 2 x400 was also available in spanish.
"El Emperio Contraataca". The boxes artwork from UFA or Ken.
picture

Andreas

PS: Another artwork Picture 1 and Picture2

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on October 26, 2004, 10:08 AM:

Yes, that would explain it, Andreas.

Strangely, the shorter version I have (ie. cut for negative damage) has better print quality than the longer one; much sharper!

PS. Love those boxes and want them!!!

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on October 26, 2004, 11:59 AM:

Very nice boxes, Andreas.
I think only part 1 was ever released in France (featuring the US design - blue background and round insert of the poster - French title pasted on top of it) with *very* limited distribution.
Well, at the time, I had already smashed my piggybank to order both cutdowns from Red Fox in the US...
Considering that the whole beginning of ESB takes place on Hoth, the ice planet, we are allowed to aptly call ourselves "Anoraks" [Wink]

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on October 26, 2004, 02:08 PM:

Hi
Maybe someone is interested that in the meanwhile I reassembled the Part 2 (400') of this digest: it was a rather challenging work which took me about 2 hours. And I am afraid there are still a couple of gaps, especially about the end, which I really can't fix; ;for example, after Luke's rescue there is what I'd call a "wipe" trasnition to the rebels space fleet with a very big ship: but you can view it just for a few frames aftter the transition is over, because a cut follows right thereafter.

Also there are two spliced shots that are basically the same: Luke and Leia from the back watching the galaxy thorugh a big window, then a jump cut and the Millennium Falcon speeding away.

I feel so puzzled I might want to do a home video transfer to VHS (PAK B/G) and send it to one of you who owns the original cut down in good condition for comparison (ablsolutely free), so that he can propose modifications where needed and possibly pinpoint missing scenes.

Anyone interested?
Thanks.

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