8mm Forum: 16mm forums

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on November 06, 2004, 02:24 PM:

At the request of several people, we now have forums for 16mm. Since this has always been known as the "8mm Forum", a new name is probably in order. Any recommendations?

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on November 06, 2004, 02:44 PM:

Small Gauge Forum?

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on November 06, 2004, 02:48 PM:

Brad,
Not sure what you are saying, are you saying that the forum is now going to be 16mm as well as 8mm. if so i hope this is not going to go down the same route as another forum i know, then it will be DVD forum next. [Mad]

Posted by Naushad Mohamed (Member # 288) on November 06, 2004, 02:55 PM:

hi everyone
i am new to this forum,but its a great idea. next should be 35mm as well. i dont see why there should only be 2 other forums for this.this one is just as good and might even be better.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on November 06, 2004, 03:02 PM:

Chris

I don't think this is an issue since from what I can see (and indeed I may be wrong) the 16mm forum is just linked to the 8mm but you can see all topics on all forums. If this is the case I am all for it but I agree that "purity" is best maintained.

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on November 06, 2004, 03:06 PM:

Brad, this is a super idea. I am very much a collector of 8mm and 16mm films. This has been the most interesting and easiest going forum on the internet. I know the new 16mm forum will be the same quality of participants. [Smile]

As to the new name how about "film collector's forum". [Cool]

[ November 06, 2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Dan Lail ]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 06, 2004, 03:26 PM:

Hi Brad,
Film Collectors Forum is probably a good name. I think the inclusion of all film sizes, including the occasional 9.5mm, is probably a good idea. I agree with Chris though, that I hope this will not eventually change this excellent forum to include digital video. There are plenty of other Forums on the web which already cover the "Home Theater" crowd. Let's restrict this forum to reel film. Maybe this should now be stated on the opening page, if you are going to change the Forum title from specifically 8mm.

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on November 06, 2004, 03:29 PM:

Hope your right Tony.

Sorry Brad understand what your doing now.
Could call it Frame By Frame or celluloid forum.

I would like to make it clear that i have no problem with other film formats apart from DVD which in my opinion is neither a format or anything else apart from a good drip mat to put your coffee on.
I do think though that by doing this you should include 9.5 28 & 35mm

Chris.
Chris.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on November 06, 2004, 04:14 PM:

Yep. I think this is a good idea, I like the fact that the forum coverage has broadened but the specific areas of interest have still been given their own slots [as it were]. The danger of lumping everything in to one space would be that the predominant interest would take over from the minority, as has happened else where. I don't see that happening with the format that Brad is proposing.

As for names, doesn't really matter I suppose, but I like the suggestions above of either 'small gauge forum' or 'film collectors forum'.

Mike

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 06, 2004, 04:34 PM:

Just hope this is not the start of the format wars as seen on another forum just lately [Frown]

It will be shame if this turns into a place to bitch about which format is best etc.

Kev. [Smile]

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on November 06, 2004, 04:43 PM:

I take your point Kev but I don't think the guys on here would let that happen. There seems to be a comforting degree of mutual respect amongst the membership of Brads forum and little evidence of a competitive edge, just a bunch of people chatting about their film and projectors.

From what I understand most of the people on here collect and project several gauges and DVD, it's just nice, as Tony says to have a haven where you can go and know that all the talk will be about the gauge you want to talk about at that moment, what ever gauge that is.

I concur with Paul that keeping it purely reel film is important as there are plenty of home theatre forums on the internet available for those of us who want to to go and talk about DVD projection.

MIke

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 06, 2004, 04:45 PM:

Sorry to buck the trend but I like this forum just the way it is. There are already forums for 16mm and 35mm and having used them both I have to report that I don't like them much. In particular with the 35mm forum some of the members get very big headed and rude about their subject. I gave up with the 16mm forum years ago for partially the same reasons.

As for the other 8mm forum mentioned earlier I've never bothered registering. I think it's certainly helped this forum that a full name is required meaning people can't hide behind a pseudonym or code word. Using another name and critising is something that tends to annoy me. No disguises here which means members tend to be more civil to one another.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 06, 2004, 04:52 PM:

Here, here. I'm right behind you John with your comments. Lets keep the formats separate. I can just imagine what this is going to be like in 6 months time. Have seen it elsewhere. [Frown]

Hope I'm wrong.

Brad, why didnt you put this to the vote before actually doing the merge? Bit sneaky! [Frown]

Kev.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on November 06, 2004, 05:04 PM:

Ok. Am I missing something here? As I see it Brad has set up a whole set of new 16mm forums accessible through the same index page as this forum. They will just be additional forums on the index.

This forum will remain 8mm and any one who wants to talk about 16mm stuff will have three seperate forums to access. Why should that bring problems into here?

Is it that you guys think that Brad is proposing that 16mm chat is included in the 8mm forum? If that were the case I would agree with you because, as I said earlier, the danger would be that the majority interest would swamp the minority and yes, that could lead to unpleasantness as we have all seen elswhere.

I don't see that happening all the time there are seperate forums for people to chat about the stuff that is interesting them at that moment.

Mike [Confused]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 06, 2004, 05:13 PM:

Mike I just think that it will now encourage 16mm only members onto the forum which Brad will be unable to police and they will post into both parts of the forum and eventually we will see the bickering and carry on that has happened in the past on other forums. Also it will start to take the forum away from the very focussed feel that this forum has. Shame [Frown]

If I want to talk 16mm or 35mm I know where to go and it wasnt here on this forum.

Kev.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on November 06, 2004, 05:17 PM:

Kev, I understand your concern but am hoping that the route Brad has taken on here will minimise the risk of all that silly gauge war stuff.

Only time will tell I suppose ...

Mike [Smile]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 06, 2004, 07:10 PM:

Since I can only concentrate on one gauge at a time, I'd prefer to keep the formats separate. I vote for keeping the 8mm home page the way it was, except for the addition of a link to the 16mm forum.

Status Quo Doug

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on November 06, 2004, 08:09 PM:

No worries. It will work fine. If anyone sees a problem building on a thread, just please drop me an email.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on November 07, 2004, 12:54 AM:

When I became a member of this Forum, I appreciated and recognized the difference in the tone of the threads posted here as opposed to other Forums.

The 8mm collectors that have remained in 8mm, are all indebted to the late Derek Simmons and other Pioneer Legends in the small format Film Community that have worked to make the picture and sound quality in 8mm, a commodity that rivals and surpasses larger film formats in many ways.

Who would have ever imagined all of the wonderful shorts, features, documentaries that have became available over the past twenty years when video was forcing this format to succumb to a screetching halt?

The creativity and sweat of Derek, the successors at Derann, including his proteges and competitors and collectors have kept this small and unique community thriving.

Try and find a James Bond print in 16mm? Or the Wizard of Oz? Gone With the Wind?
Many of these cost prohibited high ticket items in 16, are available in 8mm.
The Star Wars Trilogy in Scope and Stereo, and any feature that will fit into your closet and not take up and inordinate amount of valuble space?

It's Fascinating how Keith Wilton, John Bird, J.Clancy Kev, M.Peckham Ian, Paul Foster, P. Sheard, (to name a few) have done to promote, create and share this unique hobby format with the world. That's what they do, and the key word is SHARE in capital letters.

The quality of the topics on the Forum has been outstanding, and the replies to the invaluable subjects remain focused and on course with the theme. The collectors here are serious about this aspect in collection. The deviation is slight, but everyone is learning from each other and having a good time as well.

This is due to the integrity of the members. They appreciate the craft, and remain loyal to its origins. The chat is never boastful or mean spirited, or bitchy to one another.

My experience has been that many 16mm and large format collectors have lost the appreciation and sense of wonder that is valuable to film, let alone in this format.

Is it only me that has noticed that the larger format collector, (aside from the likes of K.Wilton and the gang) are just out to take and not give back? They others all seem to have all of the answers, and they say nothing.
Praise and appreciation on the other forums are few and far between.
Incidentally, the previous nonsense that circulated on the other Forums regarding someone by the name of B. Miller became ugly, and it should not be brought here, and I don't ever wish to hear the likes of this baloney again. They should all get lost. It is interesting to have additional topic threads for 16mm. But, I hope that this does not invite the troublemakers.
I would hope that larger format collectors, could value and appreciate and embrace our small gauge community too.

So Brad if need be, if you are considering a name change, please keep the name 8mm in the title. Perhaps 8mm plus, or 8mm Films and more.

As Christians say, Keep Christ in Christmas and don't make it 'X-Mas.' Likewise
please don't 'X' out the '8' in 'mm.' It is what this was all founded upon, and we should keep it that way. Please keep in mind the core membership here, they are the ones that have kept it flowing. Kev. is close to 600 posts and counting. If this is not dedication, and the building of a sense of community, then I don't what else is there?

Best,
Michael

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on November 07, 2004, 02:51 AM:

Brad,

You have done a fantastic job of managing this forum and I agree with everyone who has posted. I still feel able to ask a "dumb" question and get away with just a bit of ribbing but I will at least get an answer somewhere! Not so on the 16mm forum. I have tried that and have given up as they are a narrow minded parochial miserable bunch of half wits. There, said it now and feel better!

The joy of this cinematic experience is the learning and experimenting. Why even the other day whilst patting Ian's friend Bella on the head I learnt about head flats and tail flats! (Thanks Grandpa!). No idea why they are important but hey it expanded my vocabulary and I can now Bull s**t with the rest!

By all means have a 16mm thread but let us maintain the integrity of this community and be prepared to take action against those who want to disrupt it.

[Smile]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on November 07, 2004, 03:57 AM:

8mm+ That has a nice ring to it. Any other suggestions?

Posted by Michael Bliss (Member # 66) on November 07, 2004, 06:39 AM:

Michael De Angelis wrote, "My experience has been that many 16mm and large format collectors have lost the appreciation and sense of wonder that is valuable to film, let alone in this format." I coudln't disagree more strongly. I'm a member of many film forums, in all gauges of film, since I'm not only interested in film as a collector and teacher of cinema, but n the whole film experience. I seriously doubt that the attitude that Michael mentions is true of the overwhelming majority of collectors, regardless of gauge, although I'll grant that there's a bit of elitism among 35mm collectors. Nonetheless, virtually ALL collectors love film for itself, regardless of the size of the film stock.

Posted by Tom Mc Kenzie (Member # 241) on November 07, 2004, 07:10 AM:

Dear Brad

16mm on the 8mm site. Please no they have enough sites of their
own. I collect 16mm but honestly one look at the 16mm internet forums was enough for me. I didnt know what planet I was on and they seem to be in permanent war with each other.

Tom

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 07, 2004, 08:47 AM:

Michael, you'll find the chat and banter on this forum is of a much friendlier nature. I'm a member of the 35mm forum but rarely go there now as it's just not safe to put a post up without others tearing you to pieces. Obviously it's not all collectors who are like this but it only takes a couple to make a forum unusable.

This one has no such problems.

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on November 07, 2004, 08:51 AM:

Dear Brad,

If we have to have another name for the 8mm forum, how about a term that is often applied to 8mm film "Bootlace", so how about the "Bootlace Forum", I think that has a ring to it. What do others think?

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 07, 2004, 09:35 AM:

Barry,
There is already a "Bootlace Forum", run by Mark Sylvester.
I share some of the concern that others have expressed here, namely that the superb quality of this forum may be degraded by the infusion of a band of 16mm and 35mm loudmouth's from other Forum's. I trust that Brad will be as vigilant as he has been on the 8mm Forum, and kick anybody off who get's out of line.

Posted by Tom Mc Kenzie (Member # 241) on November 07, 2004, 09:37 AM:

Dear Barry

If you change the name to Bootlace Forum anybody typing 8mm will never find this forum. The term bootlace is not known to many outside the film collecting world.

I personally would prefer this forum to stay the way it is in terms of its name and terms of interest.

A 16mm element has been tagged on by Brad. All I would ask is that threads to both gauges are kept separate by the Moderator
The joy of this forum is that it caters for only one interest.

I have seen 16mm forums on the internet and would have nothing to do with them as in my opinion they are total rubbish and in no way represent teh interests of 16mm collectors and dealers.

I would strongly worry that my letting in certain elements that this forum would suffer

Tom

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 07, 2004, 10:27 AM:

Having said all that other 8mm forums are rubbish too so well done Brad for coming up with a format that has actually worked. And good luck in future with keeping the riff raff out.

Now what's Barry doing here? [Wink]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on November 07, 2004, 11:24 AM:

A few answers.

*Yes, the forums will be kept strictly seperated. Just because the main index page offers both gauges to select from does not mean that 16mm posts will be permitted in the 8mm forums, and vice versa.

*No matter what, the address http://8mmforum.film-tech.com will remain. However there may end up being more than one way to get to it. For example http://16mmforum.film-tech.com may (if DNS is set up to do so) also point to the same master index page, etc.

*Yes, if people start getting out of line I will do whatever is needed to put a stop to it. I have been blown away at the quality of the members on this forum. For it to have ran for so long without any problems is just unheard of on an internet discussion forum, and I believe it can continue.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 07, 2004, 11:29 AM:

Indeed, "Bootlace" doesn't mean much for us, foreigners (or non-english members).
Something simple for the name would probably do the trick (ie - "8 & 16 mm Forum" or "Film Collector Forum" as Dan suggested).
I guess one can always hide an html tag containing key-words (8mm, Super 8, Elmo, Projector, etc.) in the header of the page in order to be spotted by Search engines (I can help with that, Brad).
Let's hope this fine, friendly place will remain the same. There's been some really nasty flame going on recently on another forum. [Frown]

Posted by Tom Mc Kenzie (Member # 241) on November 07, 2004, 12:40 PM:

Thanks for your reply Brad.

What you are proposing seems quite satisfactory both
elements will remain completely separate so the true identity
of this 8mm forum will remain unchanged.

Also, if I understand you correctly the 16mm forum if
successful it will have its own separate forum in time.

I leave it to you to remove any stray threads any police as necessary.

Thanking You for clarifying these matters.

Tom

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on November 07, 2004, 03:53 PM:

I am delighted to hear the ardent desire of many forum members to keep this Forum pleasant.

My apologies to Michael Bliss, I did not intend to stongly sound off against larger format collectors. I also collect in 16mm. As a teacher in cinema, I commend Mr. Bliss for his appreciation in enjoying the whole film (all gauges) experience. Indeed, we are a group of unique hobbyists. [Smile]

But I have been dissapointed for a friend and for myself, that have found many 16mm collectors to be elitist and condescending. [Frown]

Perhaps this is due in part, to 16 mil collectors looking to sell their wares, after they have been torched by poor deals and wish to pass their losses along to others, regardless in taking a loss on their own. (Sorry, I did not wish to sound controversial or opinionated, I'm trying to figure it all out?). [Confused]

Also, my friend was ignored and he ultimately bowed out from being a member at his local Chapter of the Sons of the Desert, because he was viewed in being one dimensional as an 8mm collector. [Confused]

I have met those that believe that the light output from 8mm is inferior to 16.
Well to each their own.

Believe it or not, that Tent is running mostly video now? [Roll Eyes]

So go figure? And how many people would be willing to lug along a heavy projector and run the risk of an accident with the unit for members that are less than appreciative? Anyway, he brings his GS1200 to the great outdoors, during the summer months (with permission with the public parks in his area). People love watching film. A one reeler of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in a documentary along with the feature The Scarlett Claw, had people awstruck.

All formats can coexist, the baloney heads can go elsewhere. [Razz]

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on November 10, 2004, 04:46 AM:

How about "REEL FILMUSERS" ?

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on November 11, 2004, 11:07 AM:

I agree......16mm Forums tend to leave me ambivalent after only a few minutes. It's always the same topic..."Has anyone got a IB Tech print of such-and-such?".

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on November 11, 2004, 11:51 AM:

So far the new format of categories on this site are working superb. The opening page is very impressive. The only one of it's kind I believe. Bravo dude! [Smile]

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on November 11, 2004, 12:38 PM:

I would love to collect 16mm as well as super 8,but,even though my house is quite large by UK standards,I havnt the room
I expect many on this forum has looked at the give away prices of 16mnm projectors and at least been tempted.

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on November 11, 2004, 01:23 PM:

Hi, Robert, by room, do you mean the distance of throw from the projector to the screen or film storage?
As far as price, it's cheaper for me to ship an 8mm feature from the UK to the US than a 16mm feature. 16mm runs around 50 pounds ($95.00) and an 8mm around $22 pounds ($35.00). All the best Super 8s are in the UK. [Smile]

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on November 11, 2004, 04:05 PM:

I totally respect what everyone has said here, but I have absolutely NO interests in any gauges other than standard 8mm or super 8mm film(and projectors), these are my loves, so i'm not happy to see the 8mm Forum "branching out" and becoming a 'hybrid'; which it now is.... Even the forum members who are into 16mm and 35mm have not really tried to inject those formats into this forum except out of necessity or reference. I truely hope that these additions don't dilute the quality of the "8mm Forum". My 2 cents worth....

Posted by Tom Mc Kenzie (Member # 241) on November 14, 2004, 03:41 AM:

Hi Joe

Have to fully agree with your comments. Dilution is not the answer for this forum. Its great success is that it is for collectors of 8mm

Tom

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on November 14, 2004, 12:50 PM:

Dan
My point about room for 16mm was both storage and the fact that this guage was intended for much larger venues than my little actic hobby room that I currently project in.A 16mm projector up there would be totaly overwhelming.
Freinds of mine have a large barn like extension at there house and ive done shows there to great effect with super 8 but id love to try 16mm out at there place.

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