8mm Forum: I need your valuation

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Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 03, 2004, 07:47 AM:

I going to convert a third GS1200 in a HTI unit!
The first one was for me, the second for a friend, the third is for an other one friend!
But I'm thinking: what the value of a similar machine? If I convert a fourth Gs is there a buyer for it? And what's the right price? Do you think it's 3000 eu?
The GS1200 HTI gives 1000 lux on the screen , and the job is very well made! I modify the main switches too for some new functions.
Let me know your opinion

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 03, 2004, 04:27 PM:

3000 Euros sounds about right. That will include the HTI Bulb and the power supply, and the labor.
Ugo, cmon....give us directions so we can do this here in the states! If you write them up in Italian I can have the language converted to English. It will be a big party! [Smile]

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on December 04, 2004, 08:31 AM:

Ugo, a similar HTI converted machine with the ultra rare 1.2 Elmo lens was just sold for 1750 Euros (http://www.kinotechnik-rinser.de/super8.htm), so I think 3000 Euro is way too far.
Pitty I wasn't as quick [Frown]

, but I've heard that it's been shipped to Italy Bologna [Eek!]

. The Italian Connection strikes again? [Razz]

Cheers
Demetrio

Posted by Ronnie Coeuhant (Member # 143) on December 04, 2004, 11:47 AM:

I personally do not think the HTI sold for 1750 Euros is the market price for the projector. Just like yourself, if we were as quick in seeing the sale posted, we would have snapped it. I bet if you post that to eBay, the selling price will end up much higher. Just recently, GS-1200 Xenons sold for $2,750, $3,068, $2,200, and $2,300. HTI's should be much higher.

With that said, I'm sure if Ugo price them for 1750 Euros, he will be very busy.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 05, 2004, 12:36 AM:

It should also be noted that in the conversion you will be losing one of your speakers. I remember seeing the picture of Ugo's machine and he disconnected the speaker to put something else in its place! If you have an HTI machine it will not be the portable kind. It will be something for a designated place hooked up to an amplifier.

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 05, 2004, 03:30 AM:

Thank you for your opinions, friends!
About the GS HTI from Rinser: I saw that machine, I have the photo of it. It's similar to the machine that was on ebay few days ago. I suppose it comes from Jovanovic too!I think that conversion isn't made very well!
Anyway: 1750 eu isn't enough to buy the hardware (projector, lamp, supply, igniter, hand made lamp holder, circuit for the fun)! and the price of the job?
Yes Alain: I remove one of the internal speacker. But the other one is enough to ear the sound if you are running a film at home (if you say "I loose the stereo play" I answer "do you really think that two little and near internal speckers are able to give a stereo sound?). And don't forget the amplifier of the GS is able to drive the external speckers.

[ December 05, 2004, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Ugo Grassi ]

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on December 05, 2004, 04:00 AM:

OK Chaps a moment of pure ignorance.

Can someone enlighten me as to the differences between the Xenon and the HTI conversion as well as the advantages/disadvantages of both?

Thanks

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 05, 2004, 08:44 AM:

I do believe that you can get good stereo sound from the little speakers! [Smile]

Well not great but good. I think that is one of the main lures for the Xenon machine in that even though it is not as bright as the HTI it is an all in one contained unit. The transformer for the lamp and everything is contained in one simple package. The HTI needs its own ignition module, loss of one speaker, etc. Is there no way to do a conversion and keep both speakers intact? That would be great!
In regards to the HTI information, the HTI Bulb is roughly 2x as bright as the Regular 250watt Xenon Bulb used in the Elmo GS1200 Xenon. This was the bulb used in the Beaulieu 708EL HTI Hi Power Projector. I believe it came out after the Elmo Xenon and is considered to be the more advanced and cutting edge light source.
Conversions were originally being done for both the GS and the Beaulieu by Bavaria film in Germany. But then due to some legal/Safety issues Bavaria discontinued the conversion to the GS machines. Then roughly about a year ago they discontinued the work to the Beaulieu machines as well. Stating that the one person whom they had doing the work had moved on. (I think they meant "passed on")
Now the only conversions being done to either machines are by independent parties like Ugo and Javonivic (?). Super bright picture but it puts out a lot of heat..thus the problem. I have never seen an HTI in action...waiting for Doug or Alan Gouger to take the plunge than I can go to their homes and see! You can buy all the parts yourself from Wittner to do the work. The lamp, Ballast, holder, etc. It will cost you over a thousand in parts, then you have to find a way to do it!
Now wasn't that a wordy post? That should count for 3 posts!

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on December 05, 2004, 01:39 PM:

What about the Marc lamp conversion? Or are we talking about the same thing here? If so, Alan you have seen one of these in action and I can name the date and place.

Now I must get on and post that thread about Johnsons Baby Oil.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 05, 2004, 03:16 PM:

Hello Mr. Clancy!
The Marc lamp is a different conversion. Your picture was awesome by the way...sharp, contrasty.. and the sound..lovely, effervescent...bravo!
I was speaking to Ignacio and this collector of Super rare machines, (He owns the Fumeo 9145 500watt Xenon Stereo machine, Beaulieu HTI, GS Xenon, and on and on..) and he told me that he wasn't too fond of the Marc conversions. He has the same Marc 300 lamp in his Fumeo 9139 I believe and he said as the bulb gets older it tends to change the color of the film. He believed that the light ouput of the HTI was comparable to his 500 watt Xenon but he said the lamp life of the HTI was not as long.
The HTI supposedly puts out almost 2X the lumens of the Elmo 250 watt Xenon.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on December 06, 2004, 02:14 AM:

The Marc lamp does indeed go off very quickly. After about 50 or 60 hours it's probably due for the bin.

Mr. Wilton and I compared my Marc conversion machine against the convention GS Xenon and with the naked eye it was clear to see the Xenon gave a brighter picture.

Now there are two factors to take into account here:-

1) The xenon gives a whiter light.

2) The xenon had a two-bladed shutter whereas the marc still has the three bladed shutter. Something that needs to be rectified.

Additionally, when using a light meter a genuine Elmo ESC lamp gives close readings to that achieved by the xenon. All seems a bit strange at first sight doesn't it?

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 06, 2004, 07:26 AM:

Hi Alain,
all the things you say are rights. When the technician (my friend) and I thought how to do the conversion,we understood the simple way to put inside the GS the ignitor was to remove an internal speacker. It's possible to leave it inside, but it needs an harder job!
Anyway I never use my HTI GS at my home! On a screen on two metres, the light is too much, and after 10 minutes a dolor to the eyes arrives! These high power machines are right for the hall.
About the original Xenon version: it gives 500 lux, but with a two blades shutter it arrives to 1000 lux!
The HTI version gives 1000 lux with a three blades shutter. It's impossible to mount a two blades shutter in the HTI version, because the stress for the film is too much!
The only advantage with HTI version is that to buy the lamp is very simple. I don't know if the clone of the 250 Xenon lamp is available now.

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 07, 2004, 06:54 AM:

Hi people,
here the photos of the last GS HTI
I made!

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2