8mm Forum: Sorry to sound stupid-ST1200

This is topic Sorry to sound stupid-ST1200 in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001198

Posted by Rick Skowronek (Member # 385) on May 21, 2005, 05:35 PM:

I'm looking at an Elmo St1200, don't think it's an HD (no suffixs given) but looks like a Super 8 with mono sound, only one output. Guy I talked to says 8mm not Super 8. I think he doesn't know what he's talking about. Any help would be appreciated from all the Elmo experts here. Can't be sound (normally) and regular 8mm, right?

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on May 21, 2005, 07:17 PM:

Definitely not 8mm. There is one standard-8 sound projector from Elmo that I'm aware of but it's an ST-180 something-or-other. There are no ST1200s that do regular 8mm.

Posted by Michael Clark (Member # 369) on May 21, 2005, 08:03 PM:

Are you looking at this? It says it's just an 8mm and gives no suffix - just ST1200. I too was wondering if it really was just a regular 8mm or if it could be a super 8 mm. I'm not familiar with the Elmo's either. If it really is a Super 8, it looks like a good buy. [Smile]

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on May 21, 2005, 10:21 PM:

Oh, that one's a super-8 machine alright. [Smile]

Basically there are three different versions out there:
ST-1200, the first and original design, you can tell by its turquoise-color front (I find it sort of ugly, actually) -
ST-1200D, the second and (from what I've heard) significantly improved design, better film transport and I-don't-know-what-else-but-Kevin-Faulkner-etc-can-tell-you-I'm-sure [Big Grin]

-
ST-1200HD, the third version which (like the 1200D) has a silver-colored front and also brings twin-track sound capability and enhanced recording options onboard - you can tell it's twin-track by the controls/jacks on the side and the two LEDS that indicate tracks 1 and 2, below the take-up reel arm.
The ST-1200HD is the ONLY machine that will give you stereo sound by connecting an external amplifier to the monitor outputs for both tracks.
There are also additional suffixes, either M for magnetic-only models or M&O for models that do both magnetic and optical playback (plus of course magnetic recording). For example, my own projector says Elmo Sound ST-1200HD M 2-Track.
I'm also told that there are other slight variations among earlier and later models of each of these types, for example later-generation ST-1200HDs have a large brass sound drum and a rubber roller pressing against it, plus two spring-loaded rollers between the sound portion and the lower sprocket wheel... whereas earlier ST-1200HDs have, I think, a smaller sound drum with a rubber tire around it (I may be mistaken on this one). Also some models have a rubber coating around the outer rim of the shutter wheel, but later models omit that rubber (for whatever reason).

Whew! That was more detail that I meant to go into, but there you have it... oh, and last but not least, ALL of these models are for super-8 film only. [Wink]

P.S.: Before I became enlightened, I used to think all ST-1200s were stereo projectors [Roll Eyes]

and that the "ST" actually stood for "stereo" [Roll Eyes]

... but then I thought the ST-1200 and GS-1200 were the same thing, too [Razz]

Posted by Rick Skowronek (Member # 385) on May 22, 2005, 11:53 AM:

Heard from the seller. It is a vanilla ST1200. No letter suffixes. Probably a fairly early one. Pure vanilla mono unit as well. Can mix the two mag stripes but not play them independantly. Was pretty sure it was Super 8 only.

Thanks for all the input.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on May 22, 2005, 01:00 PM:

That is indeed a first-generation ST-1200. (Apologies if I wasn't clear on this before.) It is a pure mono, single-track machine - it does not play back the balance stripe at all. No twin-track sound, not even blended to mono. Again, the ST-1200HD is the only machine that is even equipped to play/record on both tracks, so it's the only one that plays them both blended to one monaural output (but you can get stereo with an external amp).

Posted by Rick Skowronek (Member # 385) on May 23, 2005, 08:50 AM:

Thanks Jan,

It was impossible to tell from the picture as it was so blurry. I let it go. Not quite the machine I had in mind especially when it went for $150 and couldn't do anything with the balance track.

Rick

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on May 23, 2005, 09:14 AM:

If you look at all the photos, one could be misleading. The shot of the back gearbox cover with the power cord. Now why would anyone block the right side of the case with the manual. Clearly, you could put the manual with the accessories. This model does not repeat DOES NOT have an aux output which is right where that manual is blocking. You could go to Radio Shack and buy a device called attenuater ("UH-TEN-U-ATER) which drops speaker output to line level and with that you could attach to a stereo amplifier via a splitter for proper pro logic speaker connections. But otherwise, this machine is the lowest end of ST1200 out there. And don't forget there are optical ST1200 units as well as mono and/or dual tracks with the HD's.

This machine if it works, would be good as a testing unit for film prints. If it doesn't work, it has a few good parts compatible with other units, but not many.

Also, the very early st1200 units had a very unusual power cord fitting where it connects to the machine. When they made the 1200D which replaced the early st1200 the plug was more common. If you bid on the machine, MAKE CERTAIN the correct repeat CORRECT power cord is included, rather than "one that seems to fit and makes it work."

Please, as always....BUYER BEWARE!

CG

Posted by Rick Skowronek (Member # 385) on May 23, 2005, 09:32 AM:

Thanks Chip,

I'm looking at another one that just came up on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7518307254&fromMakeTrack=true

This definitely an HD model but also looks like it's mono only. Only one record light.

Comments are welcome and it sounds like one of those units that will need Tom Photiou's new rubber drive wheels.

Rick

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on May 23, 2005, 11:03 AM:

Rick if I were you I'd go for that HD unit. I know a man in LA California who could give it a cleaning and replace the belts, assuming that's all it needs. He's quick and reasonable. The single record light is because it only records in mono. Stereo is via playback only. You need a GS to record in stereo.

Philfilm is a guy in Texas try and beat him at this auction. He'll pay very little to get the machine, have it fixed, then turn around and sell it used but for a new price. The latest ST1200D's on his site are going for just under $1,000.00.

I am not trying to slam Phil, but try and get it if you can before it's too late.

CG

Posted by Rick Skowronek (Member # 385) on May 23, 2005, 12:57 PM:

I'm hoping to, Chip.

Problem is these dealers, at times, put these projectors out of range for us hobby guys. Especially just getting started like me with not a spectacular amount of startup cash. I don't mind getting one that needs work (as long as the motor's not blown). I owned my own high end audio repair business spending literally thousands of hours tracking electronic and mechanical problems in some of the most sophisicated units of the day, as well as having a substantial electronics engineering background. I also have the ability to do, or to have done, some parts fabrication work. Also sounds like the expert help on this forum is also some spectacular resources.

Rick

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on May 23, 2005, 04:16 PM:

Lets get one point clear here. Althought the ST1200HD has an output for each track it was only intended for transferring the sound from one track to the other. None of the ST machines can record in stereo whatever their configuration. It just lucky that the HD has these two outputs which can be hooked up to an external amp. One point to note is that the output level from these monitor outputs is quite low as they were designed to match the fairly sensitive inputs on the projector. Its important therefore to make sure the amp they are plugged into has a reasonably high sensitivity line input.
Anyway because they are mono only in record there will only be the one record light. The only stereo machines are the GS range.

Kev.

Posted by Rick Skowronek (Member # 385) on May 23, 2005, 04:25 PM:

Thanks, Kev.

It do get confusing since it seems like Elmo (and probably the rest) changed models and capabilities like we change our underwear. Like impossible to keep track without a program and thank heavens you guys have that program.

Rick

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on May 23, 2005, 10:27 PM:

Rick,

not to worry - you're going down the same road I did not long ago, and soon it will all become crystal clear! [Smile]

But like Chip said, the ST-1200HD you're watching on eBay now is definitely one you should go for - although the descriptions about the deteriorated belts and gummy mess would worry me, I think you'll be more than able to get that cleaned up and restore this machine to pristine running condition with a set of new belts. Best of luck with bidding on it [Smile]

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2