quote:

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the film was made for Buenes Aires airlines.
Not sure who struck the print

In a message dated 8/7/05 7:28:30 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
member@ebay.com writes:

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So does it mean some airline companies in Latin America still use 8mm around that era (1987-1990)??

Want to know what other people's say.

Bye
 

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Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on August 07, 2005, 10:03 AM:
 
Don't know about the print, but I'm sure the film was released theatrically in 1984, not in 1987.
 

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 07, 2005, 10:14 AM:
 
No, according to IMDB "Living of daylight" was released in 1987. Please open this URL: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093428/combined.

Still getting from IMDB, in 1983 was "Octopussy" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086034/combined
and in 1985 was "A view to A Kill" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090264/combined. Both are still Roger Moore.

As far as I remember in 1986, it was alreasy marketed a video projection the so-called "Barco Vision" (three lense). And it sounds funny for me if the Airline in Latin America still used the 8mm projector in 1987. Moreover, in other threads it say that Airline prints were last to be used in the beginning 1980s.

Bye.
 

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Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 07, 2005, 11:37 AM:
 
Since the print is in Spanish, and Latin American airlines continued to use film projectors onboard even after video projectors became available... it seems to me that it was simply a question of cost at the time for them (upgrading was too expensive). I'm not saying they didn't have the kind of money that US or UK (or other) airlines had - because 1. I don't know that and 2. it would be a bit too stereotypical to make that statement - just saying that while some airlines jumped onto video projection, some others probably just waited longer.
 

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Posted by Eberhard Nuffer (Member # 410) on August 07, 2005, 11:44 AM:
 
Hubert,

I do have an airline print of "A Fish Called Wanda" which - according to IMDB - was made in 1988 (by the way: Its colours hold up very well!). Mel Brooks' "Spaceballs", released in 1987, was also available as airline print, as was "Lethal Weapon" (1987). It seems that airline prints with English sound were made at least until 1990. The last airline prints I know about were "Beetlejuice" (1988) and "The Hunt for Red October" (1990, w. Sean Connery) which both became available through Cinema Entertainment Company (C.E.C.) in Great Britain.

Kind regards,

Eberhard
 

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Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on August 07, 2005, 02:10 PM:
 
Sorry, Winbert, I confused Living Daylights with A viw to A Kill.

From the other replies, I find this topic very interesting: I really did not imagine airline prints had been around as recently as the late 1980's.
It would be also interesting to know what projectors airline would use. Maybe Elmo GS 1200? Probably a machine with twin track capability in order to accomodate two different language versions? Anybody knows?
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 07, 2005, 02:25 PM:
 
This is really good news! I knew that it went up to at least "A Fish Called Wanda" But I had no idea that it went up as far as "Hunt for Red October" (Boy! I'd love to find a print of that!) Which means that there is the potential of finding two more years of film releases on optical sound super 8! I've always felt that optical sound super 8 is the "bastard child" so to speak, of super 8, and I still hope to make a web page dedicated to the optical sound print. In many ways, I've found the optical sound prints to be of a much higher quality than almost anything put out by anybody, (except Derann's Disney's of course) Lower grade film stocks not withstanding.
 

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Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 07, 2005, 03:13 PM:
 
Hmm. But is the optical sound itself that good, too? I've not actually had a chance to hear super-8 optical sound for myself (only 16mm optical, which actually sounds fabulous). I'm rather spoiled by the quality of magnetic soundtracks.

And no, there wouldn't have been any twin-track airline projectors, since super-8 optical only has room for one sound track. I seriously doubt they went as far as squeezing another optical track next to the sprocket holes, and if there ever was such a thing as an optical-sound film with a magnetic balance stripe - thus having mixed opt/mag sound - then that's what I'd call a bastard child
 

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Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on August 07, 2005, 04:19 PM:
 
.... long long long time ago I think it was in the middle of 80´s, when "Name of the Rose" came in theaters, I saw a short documentary on German Television about a division company or a department of LUFTHANSA that they editing films (Name of the Rose) for programme in LUFTHANSA airplanes .....

... end of the 80´s I got an advertisement reel. It was from Lufthansa with magnetic sound.

.... I have a french feature with magnetic soundtrack with english and german sound .... the seller told me that it was a airline print ...
 

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Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 07, 2005, 05:32 PM:
 
Amazing! I just never stop learning around here!
 

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 08, 2005, 05:15 AM:
 

quote:

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And no, there wouldn't have been any twin-track airline projectors, since super-8 optical only has room for one sound track. I seriously doubt they went as far as squeezing another optical track next to the sprocket holes,

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quote:

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If you compare an 8mm Optical Print made in the UK against an American print, you will note that the optical track is almost pure black and white, whereas the track on a British print is dark blue. This results in the British track giving a lower level of volume and certainly more track noise, hiss and plops. Rank would never give any reason for not coating the optical tracks on 8mm prints. I hasten to add, that all 16mm prints made by the lab at the lab at that time, were coated to give optimum performances. One can only assume that in their opinion, 8mm was just not important enough for them to provide this extra service.

I was then told that a lot of the prints carried multi-tracks; the main track always being in English. But, on some prints there was another track, just on the edge of the sprocket holes, much like the balance track on a magnetic print, and this track was mostly French, German or Spanish.

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Thanks




[ June 07, 2014, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]
 

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Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 08, 2005, 08:15 AM:
 
They actually did this!? Maybe I need to just keep my mouth shut.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 08, 2005, 11:14 AM:
 
The soundtrack is the only let down when it comes to optical sound super 8. Especially with the British releases, which have high points for sharpness, but, as the article says, "more plops and hisses"., which is true.

Most of the american releases have good booming sound, but a lot of that can also be due to assorted machines. My Copal has very low optical sound output, while my Yashica has louder sound and more "bottom"to the soundtrack. I'd love t get one of those GS1200D mag/optic super 8's, as I'm sure it would be the creme ala creme of optical sound.
 

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 08, 2005, 11:36 AM:
 
For me the biggest draw back of these opticl prints is the fact they are edited for family viewing .
Films should be left the way the director intented. A pity as many opticle prints are good titles. I.E Lethal weapon. I'd hate to think of how that now looks with the lingo being edited
 

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Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on August 08, 2005, 12:01 PM:
 
... I bought different Elmos and a Revue (made in Japan)and I was always disappointed with the optical sound .....

... Few months ago I got a Bolex with stunning optical sound ...
if one of my projectors should get the label "Intercarrier noise suppressor" then I would give it the Bolex machine.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 08, 2005, 03:18 PM:
 
Personally, I like the fact that in some cases they were edited were language. Not everyone is as well edited, though. "Yellowbeard" has a little female upper body nudity, for instance, and films like, "Tender Mercies" have s**t edited out, but still have godammit in them.
But then, they had to be careful, as you never knew whether children would be in first class listening to these films, and in most (but not all cases) the profanities were not important to the story framework. As a scriptwriter myself, I feel lots of profanities and nudity are merely a crutch to appeal to the lowest common intellect and show a lack of creativity. Besides, it's not the first time that films have been edited in super 8
(Now there's a DUH!! issue). It's always seemed strange that people who have been brought up on "digests" for years, would have a problem with some editing.
Occasionally it does make a difference. I watched "48 Hours" on TV, (edited) and the words they used instead of the original profanities were not good choices, and took a lot of humour out of some otherwise very funny scenes.
 

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Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 08, 2005, 10:40 PM:
 
I kinda have to side with Tom - there's a world of difference between a full-length print with some profanities and risque scenes edited/cut short, and an actual digest, which is more of a summary of the entire film (and is taken as such). I like digests that are well done... but on the other hand, if I watch a full-length print I want to see it unedited, untouched and in its virgin state (so to speak). It's a matter of principle, I guess, but also has to do with the fact that some of the full-feature edits come across as downright annoying and/or end up disappointing the viewer because he/she finds that his/her favorite scene in the entire film was butchered for nothing more than political correctness.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 09, 2005, 11:30 AM:
 
I agree with both points, actually. I have a print of Superman 3 on optical, and ne little scene was completely cut: Clark Kent is at the bowling alley and when his girlfriend has her back turned, he uses his "super-breath" (hopefully, he hasn't eaten onions!) to cause the pins to go down, but actually completely shatters them! I thought it was about the funniest moment in the film. True, the scene didn't actually continue the plot in anyway, but I miss it, just the same.

As I had stated at an earlier time, I've found that the English versions, (because, I believe the same movies were sent out at times by both american and UK printers), and the UK versions will be longer, due to less severe editing. My UK print of "Island of Dr. Moreauh" (didn't spell that right), has a whole subplot involving Barbera Carrera (drool), that has no nudity, just sugstive, which is completely missing from the American print that I had, and comprised about 6 minutes!
 

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 09, 2005, 11:45 AM:
 
here, nothing wrong with a bit cotch or tit, you dont need to be of low intellect to enjoy the view in a movie. thats why they have certificates,in fact, i'd say UK is much more sensible than the US on this. Here a film with sex and nudity is generally either a 15 (for light adult theme) and an 18 for full sex or violence. In the states i'm always gobsmacked to see that and R restricted means you can see it if your under 17 but must have accompanying adult or gaurdian. Weird.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 09, 2005, 12:46 PM:
 
That's America for you, hippocritical and weird. Oh well! I love er!!

(Assorted flag waving, ect.)
 

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 09, 2005, 02:08 PM:
 
If im honest, so do i. I'd rather be on the US side than Europe. Europe has too many crooked euro MP's that we pay for, and aside from Derann and Walton, some of the very best in super 8 releases came from the States. Thats got to be top of our agenda
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 09, 2005, 02:52 PM:
 
Wouldn't you love to see some rich guy over here in the states who has lots of money to throw around, start producing super 8 film prints again? I mean, the actual film labs and equipment no doubt still exist and I bet whoever would start it up again could get most of the equipment for a song! Besides, it might be even easier to get studio film prints for american super 8 producers from american companies, but what do I know? (duuuuuh)
 

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Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on November 17, 2005, 05:20 PM:
 
... refering to the Star Trek IV print I just found out that the final reel has a optical sound track on the edge of the sprocket holes too, but I can´t play it. The normal track is in spanish....

Andreas
 

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Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 17, 2005, 05:44 PM:
 
While we are on this topic of optical sound in a big way here I would like to add that some of the best optical tracks I have heard are on some of the German releases which were mainly shorts. I did have a print many years ago called "DB" about the German railways and the sound was really superb. I have a print called " Rheinfahrt" and the sound is wonderful as is a copy of Disneys Bambi and Herbie Rides again.
Tom sold me a French Film Office print of Chaplins Adventurer which is on balck and white acetate stock and the music track beats a lot of mag tracks.....so yes optical sound if done right could be very good and if the projector in question is set up really well. Film Office and Geyer of Germany produced a lot of super 8 optical shorts all with the lighter blue track which certainly have a high output on my GS.
I dont think it's the lightness of the blue track which gives the higher or lower output but the overall modulation of the track. I have heard one or two optical prints with overmodulation which sound distorted and I think this is the reason why Rank prints were slightly lower in output...errrring on the side of caution.
I think that most of the later optical airline prints were being produced in the US and certainly anything produced after 1982 will be on LPP and wont be fading.
I have to say though that this thing about the optical track down the sprocket hole side for an extra language is news to me.
Can anyone with a print like this scan a small section of the film so we can all see this for ourselves. Andreas?
I wonder what machines they played on?......presumably the B&H/Technicolor units?

Kev.
 

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on November 18, 2005, 11:45 AM:
 
& if anyone wished to indulge in a good feature print of Crocodile Dundee please visit my bit on films for sale,
The price is open to sensible offers, have to say tho that to send it abroad appears to add quite a bit onto the price unfortunatly, it is open to sensible offers and is a very good print in very good condition.
 

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Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 18, 2005, 04:19 PM:
 
Well I did sent you a PM Tom on the 17th about this print you have for sale


Kev.

[ November 20, 2005, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]
 

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Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on November 20, 2005, 05:11 PM:
 
Here is a scan of the Star Trek IV print in duo-optical-sound....



It is amazing!!!
 

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Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 20, 2005, 06:00 PM:
 
Your right Andreas it is amazing. Just imagine if that optical lens was out of positon slightly......the noise from the sprocket holes would be unbelievable
With that technology in place we could have had Stereo Optical sound They could have done Stereo sound this way on 16mm where there is plenty of room for a second decent size track.

Kev.
 

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Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 20, 2005, 06:21 PM:
 
Why!! Oh, why didn't they!!


 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 21, 2005, 11:01 AM:
 
Your right, that is really interesting!! I guess potential suppliers would have thought that it would be too costly to produce with a relatively small market that would be interested.

But gee, a fella can dream! By the way, if that is a super 8 print that we see the image of, that is a very sharp picture!
 

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Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 21, 2005, 03:14 PM:
 
Yes Super 8 Osi. Only format with a sprocket hole in the centre of the frame. Other formats such as 16mm have the sprocket on the frame line.

Kev.
 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 21, 2005, 05:39 PM:
 
Amazing photo Andreas! Makes you wonder where super 8 would be today if video had not come along. Judging by your photo we would certainly have had optical stereo dolby sound, possibly even DTS sound. That would have meant a slew of stereo optical sound prints for the home entertainment market, all stocked by Blockbuster of course for rent or sale! On the projector front, xenon arc lighting or HTI lighting (per John Clancy's GS12000) would have been the norm. And films would probably have been rented in 1200ft cassettes as opposed to open reel.
All speculation of course!
 

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Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 22, 2005, 03:05 AM:
 
And...

Reduce the picture size to mirror that of modern 35mm and there is then significantly more room for different soundtrack methods. Well, about 1mm more room anyway. 4 track magnetic or 2 track magnetic stereo plus optical mono or DTS or Dolby Digital. Double coat the film with soundstripe and the options increase.

Then there would have been picture quality. Imagine if everything was as good as the Buck Labs prints of El Cid, Fall of the Roman Empire, Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, Predator and Commando.

What could have been.
 

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Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on November 22, 2005, 03:50 AM:
 
lol

hmmm, today more and more home entertainment machines come from Asia (China, .....).

If super8 still produced we would get a multiple format projector /cameras for 16mm, unsplited double8, standard8 and super8 With all sound types Paul and John mentioned. Including a CD-ROM facility for DTS the projector will cost only 59 Pounds or about 99 EUR.

BTW Star Trek IV is still for sale here

Andreas
 

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