8mm Forum: What is it with Standard 8mm?

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 07, 2007, 08:44 PM:

Just last week I won another very cheap auction. in this case it was 2X600ft reels. Two laurel and hardy's (Them Thar Hills and Tit for tat) and it also had a Blackhawk 200ft Robert benchley comedy, (never ran into one of them before) and on the other reel, a Tommy Dorsey 200ft short.

So, all of these are sound standard 8mm, beautiful quality Blackhawk prints, and they only cost a combined total of 5.99 american!

This isn't the first time that I got an incredible deal on standard 8mm prints. I'm amazed that they are going for so little.

Any theories?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 07, 2007, 10:40 PM:

Sound Standard-8 is kind of unusual: there are a lot of sound projectors that can't play R8. Neither of mine can.

(Good time to have something like a Eumig 810D)

I think that in general Standard-8 has a reputation for being of lower picture quality because the frame size is smaller. Whether this is always true or not, all things being equal people will choose a Super-8 print if they can. Especially in Blackhawks, if it's on E-bay in Standard-8, it is probably up in Super-8 either right now or will be soon.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 08, 2007, 12:04 AM:

Thats the funny thing Steve. Especially if you are talking about Blackhawk's, the image quality of the Blackhawk standard 8mm films tended to be slightly better, as a rule, than the Super 8 of the same title from Blackhawk, (this holds true until you get to the late prints done by Blackhawk, which were really good Super 8 prints.

I have found Blackhawks super 8 prints rather hit or miss, but somewhere along the line, I understand that Blackhawk switched film labs that they used and the quality took a down turn.

Now, not all standard 8mm prints were great. Most other companies that manufactured standard 8mm didn't seem to put the same care into it.

Disney was another one of the good exceptions. I have some standard 8mm color prints that are still stunning after all these years.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 08, 2007, 07:28 AM:

Maybe Standard-8 suffers against Super-8 because of the "Newer is Better" prejudice we film people know all about in these video days.

The time: early 1966
The place: a local camera shop (...remember those?)

A fellow comes in and asks for a couple of rolls of Standard-8 film. The clerk chuckles and shakes his head.

"Nobody uses Standard-8 anymore; you should go into Super-8!"

This is the birth of Format Snobbery!

(...planned obsolescence too.)

Posted by Bradford A Moore (Member # 426) on September 08, 2007, 08:50 AM:

Hey Osi,

I just got very cheaply on ebay a stunning 8mm Blackhawk print of Way Down East. It looks like it had never been shown, and was in one of those rare Blackhawk boxes that held 11 200ft reels. I'm waiting on a 8mm print Of Lon Chaney's West Of Zanzibar, which I have been told has the picture quality of a 16mm print. I can't wait to view that.
8mm can be touch and go, but generally with the older Blackhawk's you can't miss.
Brad

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on September 08, 2007, 04:21 PM:

As a long-term Blackhawk collector, those early Std 8 Silent and Sound prints were (and in many cases, still are), excellent because 8mm started in 1932 and where else would choice pre-print come from, but existing 16mm originals or at least top-dupes - By the time Super 8 came by introduction in '65, labs changed, prints were pretty much consistent with the occasional bad one coming now and then - Still Blackhawk held its own, far outshining the other distributors, especially in the bright and practically new Std 8 prints which I find better than most - So, if a Std 8 Blackhawk appears, try for it - They still sparkle - Shorty

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on September 10, 2007, 08:14 AM:

There are many many standard 8 prints out there which, when projected, can't be told from 16 or super 8. And the sound on many is better due to sound being 56 frames away from the corresponding picture frame...so that the annoying clatter you get with many Super 8 prints isn't present. I've often done a little comparison for some collectors. A blind test, so to speak. I run some of my excellent 16mm reduction of Frankenstein......then part of my Castle Standard 8 Frankenstein......and ask them which is the best. THey pick that standard 8 print every time. I also have both a super 8 and standard 8 print of Castle's The Big Thumb, with WC Feilds...the standard 8 has theatrical density and sharp focus...the super 8 looks like a dupe from a 16 print. No, it's not so much the format that determines quality....it's the source material and the care put into the print that really makes the difference.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 10, 2007, 11:02 AM:

I entirely agree Gary.

I have two prints of "The Great Chase" (or is it "Hurry Hurry"?) One of the earlier W.C. Fields Castle film releases, one is a very early sound print, and the other is a later sound printing.

The earlier one has magnificent gray tones, very little grain and incredible sharpness. The later Super 8 print is slightly wash-outed and just looks dupey.

I think I need to knuckle under and get a standard 8mm sound projector! I didn't realize just how many sound standard 8mm titles I have! Good Lord!!

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on September 10, 2007, 03:15 PM:

Some great deals are to be had with Std 8 sound, to be sure! I've enjoyed a few of them. The best was a L&H complete "Music Box" print on 3 200' reels, but I have to confess this was not Blackhawk's finest hour: the sound sync varies from reel to reel and the image quality is good-to-fair at best. But I paid a fraction of what this would normally bring in Super 8 on Ebay, and it still is a great audience pleaser.

Also, some Disney reels ("Trick of Treat", and a "Dumbo" extract) are simply amazing in sharpness, though fading to red.

Perhaps the greatest drawback of Standard 8 is the reduced illumination from the smaller aperture. My dimmest Super 8 (old Bell & Howell childhood junk) is as bright as the Eumig in Standard 8. This is quite evident when doing a 2-projector show between Super 8 & Std.

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