8mm Forum: Elmo GS-1200: a mistake???...

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Posted by Frank J Manrique (Member # 980) on February 28, 2008, 01:47 AM:

Last year (in November, I believe)I bought a New Model GS-1200 with longer custom-built reel arms, double-bladed shutter, as well as other updates (Leon Norris did the work!), from a fellow who had it listed in e-bay. I used the "buy now" option as I wanted it badly!
I also purchased all the S-8mm reels he had available, which included two custom made 3000 ft. jobs made out of some type of clear plastic and their specially made wood cases, as well as several other reels made out of metal and plastic.
A German-made 65mm scope lens and mounting bracket were also purchased from The Reel Image to complement my S-8mm set up.

I already had an older model GS-1200 (also obtained from e-bay and which was purchased in the mid 90s) that was recently refurbished by Leon Norris; I just sold it to my good film collector friend, who is also part owner of the old Hemet theater in Hemet, California. He had been wanting to own one of these S-8mm beauties so bad he could just taste it, so he's very happy with it.

Anyhow, my question to you, S-8mm aficionados, is: did I made blundering mistake by buying this rather costly GS-1200?...

-Frank J Manrique

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on February 28, 2008, 09:06 AM:

Hello. I saw the ad when you purchased it. Blunder? That is all subjective I suppose. The unit in good, tested condition is worth around $1200. So if you purchased it with the longer arms, 2 blades, that is definitely worth it IMHO.
The extended reel modification is around $75-150 and the 2 Bladed shutter replacement is around $200. Plus you have that Rectimascope Anamorphic lens.. that is a great one!
Good buy!

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on February 28, 2008, 10:24 AM:

Frank,

I vividly remember the 'FrankenElmo' with the huge arms and the see-though reels; I was wondering where that had wound up.

From the title of your post, it sounded a bit like you were having major problems of some sort, but if that is not the case, then you have a unique one, and your second machine has a good home, so all is well then.

I am still amazed that the drive train/motors on the Elmo can be 'improved' enough that it can run such loads without short/long term damage; I would love to know what was done to make that work.

Best,
Claus.

Posted by Frank J Manrique (Member # 980) on February 28, 2008, 04:07 PM:

Thank you for the response, Alan and Claus!

For what I've been told, only New Model GS-1200's are capable of being modified with the longer arm conversion by virtue of having stronger drive motors. However, what remains to be seen (no pun!) is what the short/long term usage will reveal.

By the way, few things I failed to mention is that the New Model GS-1200 was also outfitted with a higher wattage lamp, it has a 1.1 primary lens, the handle was outfitted with a soft rubber cover, as well as having been recently worked on by Leon Norris.

My friend Dave, who bought my other projector, and I recently ran side-by-side comparisons between the two GS-1200s which revealed that the New Model unit to be quite a bit brighter than the older model.
With the new scope lens in place, imaging seems to be exceptionally bright even when projected in a rather large scope screen (12 foot, the widest I can use in my home theater room).

The "acid" test will be when we play back a Derann's print of Ben-Hur (which will be put on two large reels so we can have an intermission--just like in the good old days!) and more so when we put together a full length feature on the super-large clear plastic reels...

-Frank J Manrique

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on February 28, 2008, 07:50 PM:

Frank,
Its very funny because I was speaking to Leon the other day and we talked about the machine that you have. He was telling me about this machine that he saw on Ebay with 2 bladed shutter, and the extended arms. I asked him if he did the conversion and he said "Probably!" He said he has done numerous conversions in the past so he could not confirm nor deny but he did say that on one of his machines he has the conversion and has had it for years. Said in Leon's voice: "Yup. That GS with them long arms..works real nice, motor is nice and strong. "
So you should have no problems. It also sounds like you are using the 250 watt lamp instead of the 200 watt.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 29, 2008, 01:34 AM:

Hi Frank
I would check with Kev on the forum before using your projector if the lamp has been changed to 250watt and if its tapped of the original transformer which I suspect might be the case the extra current could reduce the life of your 20 year old transformer, also there is no gain light wise as the original tranformer cant deliver the extra ampage for a 250watt, just a word of caution.

Regards Graham.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 29, 2008, 08:07 AM:

I agree with Graham on this one. I would never use the 250W lamp. It doesn't give any more light and most of the time less than the std ESC 200W lamp.
I certainly don't go along with the idea of putting extra turns round the mains transformer to make up for the voltage loss caused by the lamp trying to draw more current.

With the lack of spares around its not worth doing anything which could shorten the life of these great machines.

Kev.

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on February 29, 2008, 09:19 AM:

Kevin is absolutely right.

I keep telling myself not to keep getting involved with this lamp / transformer question, having previously posted a thread on transformer theory.

However, I can't sit by and see disasters about to happen, especially with our beloved equipment.

A transformer's ability to supply a certain load is inherent in its design, and if the secondary winding is overloaded, this means that excessive current is being drawn by the primary winding - this goes for auto-transformers as well as ones with separate windings.

The crux of the matter is the VA rating of the transformer. This MUST remain constant and fixed. You can increase the volts of the secondary with putting on extra turns of wire, BUT you MUST decrease the amps by the same ratio in order to keep the VA the same!! (VA is the volt-ampere rating of the transformer and is the product of the 2 values). This applies equally to both the primary and secondary windings.

Otherwise, in the words of "Thomas the Tank Engine", there will be "Trouble Ahead", and it will be "Too Late"!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 29, 2008, 06:19 PM:

Frank, Your machine will be brighter over the std machine just from the fact that yours has a 2 blade shutter and the other probably has the original 3 blade. Even with the same lamps in the 2 machines the increase would be a theoretical 33% increase.

I'm also not too sure that I would want to subject those small original motors to the extra work needed to take up film on those large spools. These motors do fail although the very late motors seem to be more reliable and if you have a failure now they are very difficult to get replaced.
Usually you have to get motors that are near enough the right voltage etc and engineer them to fit the machine.

Leon may have a machine modified like this himself but how much film has he put through over those years? Is it typical of the amount a collector would show.

Sorry if this sounds negative but with these aging machines with no or very few spares I tend to be very cautious or over cautious about these sort of mods.

Kev.

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