8mm Forum: Need quick help on (new) Ektachrome E64, super 8mm

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 03, 2008, 08:33 PM:

Guys,

I need a quick help. I just recently buy Ektachrome E64 stocks from Dwyane (after they backed order for some quite reasons which I didn't understand).

Now, I am not that a film expert nor making movie for art (that's why I didn't join the 8mmshoting site). I only love 8mm as the format and want to shoot my kids for my memory when I am older.

I used to shoot with K40 (Kodachrome) with my simple camera (Magnon and Sankyo), nothing fancy here.

I have heard that there some specific things that I have to be aware when shooting with E64.

Please tell me what are the golden rules.

thanks,

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 03, 2008, 08:58 PM:

Hi Winbert,

The basic complication is that if you want to expose the stock in auto-exposure mode, your camera needs to be capable of exposing 64 ASA properly. If not, you need a hand held light meter.

Unfortunately a lot of cameras, especially the newer ones were 40/160 ASA only.

To find out if your cameras are eligible, check this out:

http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Super_8_EKTACHROME_64T_motion_picture_film_ex posed_in_old_cameras

Good Luck!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 04, 2008, 01:00 AM:

Hi Steve

Thanks for the reply. I have visited the link given, but..... :-( as I am not that tech guy, I got confused.

Can I ask a very simple question? My camera has an automatic exposure, so I think it is better to be set at manual position.

Now, for outdoor takes how do I set the exposure, into minimum or maximum? (ranges 0 - 10)?

Secondly, comparing with K40, for E64 in indoor takes, do we need more light to get a brighter results?

Thanks and I need a quick answer as as my parents will bring the exposed films to US as they are travelling soon.

cheers,

Posted by Knut Nordahl (Member # 518) on April 04, 2008, 01:51 AM:

Winbert, what model Sankyo is that?

Basically - Older models will read the cartridge notch, newer will not.

Models ES and EM does not read it, models MF and CM should read it.

Next, shooting E64t in a "newer" camera that does not automatically read the notch does not mean you will not get anything on your film. You may, infact, find the results to be pleasing.

I have shot E64T in both a Nizo 156 and eumig mini 3 without any problems. Neither of these cams will register the film correct.

TEST:
If you have any old k40 catridges lying around, pop it in the camera.
Point at light source. Note F/stop.
Do the same with the E64T cartridge.
If you get the same f/stops both times your camera should read it as a 40 film and you are ok.

Film and be happy.

If not, just try to film and be happy anyway.

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on April 04, 2008, 07:28 AM:

Dont forget to remove the lens cap-like I did once,its very good film really! [Eek!]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 04, 2008, 09:17 AM:

I haven't taken the 64T plunge yet, I still have a stash of K40 in the fridge that should get me through the summer.

One of the things that concerns me about it is it's supposed to be grainer than K-40. Like a lot of people on this forum, I project pretty big and excessive grain can be annoying. How does it look on a big screen?

Does the 2/3rd stop overexposure in a 40 ASA camera reduce the grain? Would you say it looks better overexposed than exposed at 64?

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on April 04, 2008, 10:42 AM:

Work this one out!!

I have two Bauer super 8 cameras which are supposed to only recognise 40ASA and 160ASA, yet they both shoot Plus-X and Tri-X black & white films perfectly.

Got 2 64T cartridges waiting to be used, so looking forward to the result. If the monochrome films are that good, hopefully there's no reason to suppose that the 64T will be crap.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 04, 2008, 10:48 AM:

That's especially interesting with the new Plus-X, since a 40/160 camera is supposed to either overexpose it by more than a stop or underexpose it by 2/3 of a stop. Does it have that much latitude?

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on April 04, 2008, 11:06 AM:

Don't know thwe answer, Steve. All I know is that the results are stunningly good! I just thought I'd try out the B & W, as I already had a couple of cartridges, although I had been told that these cameras would now be useless with all super 8 cartridges.

These 2 Bauers (S409 XL and S609 XL) have always delivered superb pictures with Kodachrome 40ASA and the old Ektachrome 160, both sound and silent.

I honestly thought I might have to toss them away, but now - NO WAY!!

Great virtue in trying things out for yourself!!! By all means seek advice, but don't necessarily take what others say as gospel.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 04, 2008, 11:18 AM:

I guess it gets down to "why ask why":

Just shoot the film and enjoy it!

I am headed to Disneyworld in 3 weeks because:

1) My nephew is getting married there.

2) My son is 5 and we'll have a ball with him.

A month ago we took out our ultra-digital-super-Sony camcorder and found at the grand age of 5 years old the #%@&)!!!! thing seems to have crapped out. Just in time to miss out on keeping our memories from the trip.

The solution right now is a Minolta XL-401 (great travel camera) and a couple of rolls of Super-8.

Posted by Jim Carlile (Member # 812) on April 06, 2008, 03:11 AM:

Do those Bauers have filter pins?

Any 160 camera will read either Tri-X or Plus-X, sometimes both, at least one of them. So no S8 camera is completely worthless. The worst that would happen too is that a camera could only read ASA 40, which means it would overexpose 64T by about 2/3 stop, which is still acceptable.

If there's no filter pin, the Bauer will read Tri-X at a straight ASA 160, which is how Kodak rates the film anyway. If there's a filter pin, and the camera is SMPTE compliant, it will read a speed-notched ASA 160 film as ASA 100-- which is how Plus-X is set up by Kodak. That same SMPTE camera will read Tri-X at the ASA 100 as well... this means that SMPTE cameras with a limit of 160 will only read Plus-X "correctly," non-SMPTE cameras with the same ASA limitation will only read Tri-X correctly.

Not sure what's going on with the Bauers-- I suspect they are off a bit-- 1/2 to 2/3 of a stop on both films, which is still OK. All super 8 cameras are always going to be about a half stop off on Tri-X, because it is rated at a non-standard ASA 200 but metered at ASA 160-- there's no ASA 200 speed indice for super 8 cameras.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 06, 2008, 07:25 AM:

Jim,

Have you seen 64T exposed 2/3 of a stop over? How does it compare to the same stock shot dead on?

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on April 06, 2008, 03:19 PM:

Steve, it would depend on how much of your picture gets "blown out," which would depend somewhat on your camera and circumstances, right? I mean, I've seen K40 look grainier than 64T from slight underexposure and lots of blue.

Shooting a test roll isn't always practical, but would certainly help in this case.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 06, 2008, 04:54 PM:

I'm in the midst of hatching a last minute plan. I have a few rolls of K-40 which I'd really like to dedicate to finishing existing projects. So I'm going to buy new rolls of 64T to take to Disneyworld.

Here are my three options camera wise:

1) Use one of my Minolta XL-401s and overexpose 2/3 of a stop.
2) Use one of my Minolta XL-401s and recalibrate the meter to 64T.
3) Use a Bolex 480 that has exposure compensation that allows as close as 1/6 of a stop from 64T, but I've never used before.

Each of these has unknowns that I'm not too keen on, so I'm trying to figure the least of all evils. (No time for testing, either!)

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on April 06, 2008, 10:20 PM:

My vote is #2, since you seem confident with the camera. Can you be as confident with the recalibration?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 06, 2008, 10:40 PM:

I found a procedure on the Super 8 Wiki which sounds easy enough:

http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Minolta:_how_to_adjust_XL-401/601_meter

-plus I can measure and record the voltage on the pot before and after I make the adjustment so I can restore the camera to normal if I want.

I think step#1 is order the film from Kodak: everything else flows from that.

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