8mm Forum: Q The Winged Serpent

This is topic Q The Winged Serpent - is yours faded? in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on July 09, 2008, 03:33 AM:

I have a print of this 600' release that looks badly faded, although more brown than red, which is very odd considering it's on Agfa polyester stock, so I wondered if any other members here have prints that are the same or better? Considering that Agfa prints from earlier years still look fine, it's hard to find any explanation for this.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 09, 2008, 04:18 AM:

Hi Adrian, thats an odd one isn`t it. I thought thye were on LPP as well, must be the odd day the labs had other stuff in, unless a late print, bu then in to really low fade agfe then????
A mystery indeed.
Its not just got agfa later stock spliced on the front( you get that quite a bit) then sp further in, I guess not as you know your onions but sp is jet black on the reverse of the stripe like LPP( of course)
Best Mark.
PS I`m not too sure I`d buy it on LPP though even, !!!!!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on July 09, 2008, 07:36 AM:

I loved this film when I first saw it.

I have never known LPP to fade at all ever. I recall Kodak saying it was good for 99 years at least.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 09, 2008, 12:12 PM:

I know that I'm going to be looking for a print of this in the future, thanks for the heads up on potential bad film stocks.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 09, 2008, 12:56 PM:

Adrian, as I had a day off today and was wondering what to watch, your post promted me to lace up "Q" and have a look.

I've owned my print for several years and I don't believe it has shown any sign of fading (none of my prints from Derann of that period have either).

What I would say is that it does have a look which I think is common to several relases of that era.

I'm willing to stand corrected but my understanding is that these abridged versions from Derann in the 80s were sourced from 35mm theatrical prints.

In my own personal opinion many 8mm prints sourced in the same way don't have any real detail in the darker areas of the image (although some are better than others, "Gremlins" being a very good example). As a result, black areas of the picture are never anywhere near black, but more like grey, or as in the case of "Q", brown looking as the colour balance may be a little off toward the yellow side. Highlights often look quite burned-out as well.

Whether this was a result of the lab producing 16mm negatives / 8mm prints that attempted to maintained more level of shadow detail, or just the simple result of copying a 35mm release print I wouldn't know, but like I say, it is a look I have found common to a lot of abridged releases of that era (different story for features of course which were usually sourced from negatives!)

Would be interesting to know what the blues are like in your print, Adrian, as mine has reasonable blue levels (albeit a bit on the pale side) in the scenes with a lot of sky, or those scenes with the security guards uniform, or the cops blue uniforms. If your print has too, I think this might just be the way these prints look and not down to fade.

Technical stuff aside, I think this film is hilarious for all the wrong reasons...I dread to think what some of those actors must have been on to produce those performances!!! [Smile]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 16, 2008, 06:49 AM:

Adrian, I'm still intrigued to know if your print still has decent blue in it.

Since your post I've been (somewhat nervously) checking all my Derann prints from that same era. Glad to say that they all seem fine!

Here's hoping it is just the quality on this one title!

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on July 16, 2008, 09:42 PM:

Rob - I've just finally managed to screen it and must admit that my previous post maybe a 'false alarm' as my print sounds similar to yours, with a reasonable range of colours despite brown dominating what should be black. I was mislead by the leader and opening titles being dreadful in this respect; white on brown and the brown not even being very dark. I take your point concerning abridged versions, but I have the 600' versions of (e.g.) 'The Fog' and 'Capricorn One' from around the same period and they don't have a comparable brownish look.

Mark - I agree that I would have expected this to be Kodak, but I have reason to think that my copy is from the last batch of this title printed. Can anyone recall when the switch from Kodak to Agfa took place?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 17, 2008, 12:18 AM:

I agree Adrian, as my print of "The Fog" (600ft version) still has great color and very good blacks. I would be curious to get ahold of a good full feature of this, just for comparison.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 17, 2008, 05:35 AM:

Osi, yes, good point, I have The Fog too and you're right, the blacks are very good on that one.

Much as I love this print though, I still feel that some level of detail in the shadow areas is lost - not neccesarily a criticism, just a result of copying from a 35mm print I guess.

I've never seen the feature but would imagine if it was produced from a negative that it fairs better in this respect?

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on July 17, 2008, 08:47 AM:

There's one element that you need to add to the loss of colour range from 35mm to 8mm and that's the original cinematography.

Although I love this film (and most of Larry Cohen's other works), I wouldn't say that photography is its prime quality.

A dear friend who, for quite a few years, ran the "Anchor Bay" label in the US (specialized in all sorts of genre movies) told me they had a lot of colour balancing work at the lab prior to the release of Q on DVD.

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