8mm Forum: Where do I put manual exposure for E64

This is topic Where do I put manual exposure for E64 in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003927

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 12, 2008, 10:22 PM:

Hi,

This is to follow my other thread re the first experience with E64. As you know, the result was too blueish and from the other thread I can get the answer that this is much because the picture was shot over-exposure.

I have to tell you that during shooting with E64, I set my old 8mm camera, Magnon SD-817M, on "auto" exposure which now I believe it was set only to accept K40s.

So, for my new cartridge I will give another try to see what is the result of E64 if I set the exposure button in manual position.

However, I have a very limited knowledge about photography, so Joerg and other perhaps can help me in this thing (anyway, I use 8mm is only because I love this format very much!)

Below is the picture of exposure button taken from my camera.

I have numbered it (0-5) for your easy explanation.

My questions are:

1. If I want to take the outdoor shooting on the beach with full of sunshine, at what number I have to set the manual exposure?

2. If I want to take the outdoor shooting at the garden where everything looks green and only few sunlight due to the cloud at what number I have to set the manual exposure?

3. During the indoor shooting with 500 watt tungsten light, at what number I have to set the manual exposure? and what I have to do with the internal filter?

4. During the indoor shooting without any additional light (only use domestic lights), and where do I put the exposure and can I get the picture?

Thanks for your help and am sorry for being too many stupid questions in this thing :-)

cheers,

Posted by Jim Carlile (Member # 812) on August 13, 2008, 04:30 AM:

In the old days Kodak used to include little info sheets with their film that had exactly this kind of information.

Roughly, at the beach, go for anything around f/16, maybe higher if your camera can do it.

In the garden, overcast, f/5.6 to f/8.

Even better, on auto exposure, if your camera exposes for Kodachrome, then E64 is about 2/3 stop over. So, just close your meter down about 2/3 stop more than what it says.

Example-- if the meter says f/8 for Kodachrome, then manually close down the aperture an additional 2/3 stop, to about where f/10 would be--- a little less than f/11. In most cases the numbers in the viewfinder are one-stop apart.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 13, 2008, 07:28 AM:

Thanks Jim for your explanation. But I know nothing about any camera. And moreover the light meter inside the camera is also broken, so I just need your explanation by using that scale provided (0-5) where do I have to place the button during the respective conditions.

Thanks,

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 13, 2008, 10:47 AM:

I do not know Winbert's camera, in fact, I have never heard of the make. My two camera reference books (John Wade's "Collector's Guide to Cine Cameras" and Jurgen Lossau's "Movie Cameras") do not mention this make at all.

However, most Super 8 cameras with AUTO/MANUAL dials operate in a similar way. By switching from AUTO the dial usually turns some distance and by looking through the viewfinder the relevant f numbers can be seen. By using Jim's suggested exposure settings a reasonable result should be achieved.

It seems that Winbert's camera has passed its sell-by date and I suggest that he invests in a newer model which can handle the new Ektachrome 64 by correctly reading the cartridge.

The Web Site of Super8wiki has a whole list of cameras which will do the above. Perhaps a search on eBay will turn up one of these models.

I believe that Winbert is contemplating filming off his TV screen. This will be difficult with Super 8 as most cameras have a fixed speed of 18 frames per second and could show drifting bars. A better system would be to use Standard (Regular) 8 as these cameras usually have a variable speed dial.

Winbert, I wish you the best of luck.

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on August 13, 2008, 01:14 PM:

My guess is that the scale in question on the Manual Exposure dial is purely an arbirary guide and doesn't represent any calibration at all. Operation of the dial should result in movement of the iris, but should also move the viewfinder F-scale in concert with it, giving the actual f-Numbers. If that scale in the viewfinder does not appear or alter when manual is engaged and the control is rotated, then there is not a hope in hell of knowing what the exposure is.... or even if the iris is actually responding! Safest course of action, bin it and replace as Maurice suggests.
P.S. MAGNON crops up as a projector brand as "Prinz Magnon"

Martin

Posted by Jim Carlile (Member # 812) on August 14, 2008, 04:59 AM:

The super 8 wiki has them down as being sold by Dixons-- they look a lot like mid 70's Sankyos to me. They have pretty good specs. If you look down the lens with a flashlight while you're turning the dial, you can see if the iris is opening and closing.

For filming off a TV all you need is an XL camera with a wide shutter-- the longer exposure time will cover the scan, at least with American TV-- not sure about PAL. It works fine.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 14, 2008, 10:57 PM:

No guys, I am not filming TV screen. And it is almost impossible for me to get a new camera since I live in Indonesia which I believe, my self the only person left with super 8mm.

So I have to stick with this camera which has broken on exposure meter.

However, the auto exposure feature cannot be used to do get the picture because it is always getting over exposure.

Therefore I have to use my own feeling with manual exposure to compensate the outside light during shooting with E64.

So, please guys, if you cannot give the answer using my scale above, can you give me a simple answer to the following question:

1. In manual exposure, if I turn the button to no.1, do I get dark picture or bright picture?

Thanks,

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on August 15, 2008, 09:55 AM:

quote:
In manual exposure, if I turn the button to no.1, do I get dark picture or bright picture?

As "1" is close to "off"/"0", I would assume that "0" is fully closed, "1" is "a little bit opened" (something like f16 or f22 = a lot of light), "2" is "even wider opened", ... "5" is "fully opened" (=nearly no light).
But it could also be the other way round!
But you should be able to check this by looking into the lens while moving the button.

BTW: according this page, "Magnon" wasn't a brand used by Dixons, but by the manufacturer himself:
http://super8data.com/ -> cameras \ magnon

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 17, 2008, 10:40 AM:

quote:
"5" is "fully opened" (=nearly no light).

Just for more clarification due to my limitation on camera's things.

Did you say that "5" will give over exposure picture during outdoor daytime? (i.e. a picture where almost everything is seen "white")

quote:
But it could also be the other way round!

Joerg, exactly this is what I am afraid for.

quote:
But you should be able to check this by looking into the lens while moving the button.

What do you mean by this?. My meter inside the camera is broken now, so I cannot see any change if there is more or less light come into the camera. I just can only guess.

So is there a way to find out is 1 resulting dark picture or bright ("white")?

thanks

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on August 18, 2008, 03:56 AM:

Hi,

the iris in your camera works like the iris in your eye: The wider it's opened, the more light is allowed to enter.
And as the film works as your eye: Iris is nearly fully closed in sunshine and fully opened at night.

BTW you won't see the exposure-meter's scale when looking into the lens as the lens is NOT your viewfinder! So you don't have to worry whether your scale works or not [Wink]

Here's a link to a picture how it could look like:
http://screamyguy.net/iris/iris.jpg
(There are some cameras where you can't see the iris, but on most cameras you should see them like in this photo.)

Jörg

Posted by Knut Nordahl (Member # 518) on August 19, 2008, 03:03 AM:

Winbert, if you do not have any cameraknowledge, get yourself an old used SLR camera from your local "good-will store". These have detatchable lenses, and are great for understanding principles.

The picture Joerg linked to is great. It showes you the iris in the lens. To see the one in your camere, you need to look into the lens and probably zoom. Try looking at it at some different angles so that light shines down the lensbarrel from different angles.

NOTE: The Iris in your camera MAY look like the one in the picture, but it MAY also be just be two blades.

When you see it, try turning the "MANUAL" setting dial. If "1" = tiny hole, then "1" means not much light will hit the film(Daytime).
If "1" = big hole, lots of light will hit the film. And you should use 1 for dull lighting oand nighttime.

Here is some of my recent non bluish (i think) e64t. Apart from the jumping, wich is codek-relatet I think it is ok.
http://www.vimeo.com/1556379

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 21, 2008, 09:35 PM:

Joerg & Knut,

I have checked my camera and I didn't see any open-close Iris like that.

Wouldn't that because my camera has an automatic feature (electric eye), so everything is done electrically?

I am going to do some shooting this weekedn, and becase I don't know what I have to do to avoid over-exposure during daylight shooting, do you think it is save to set the manual exposure on no. 3? (in thinking "3" is in the middle between open and fully closed Iris)

thanks

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on August 22, 2008, 10:35 AM:

Hi,

quote:
I have checked my camera and I didn't see any open-close Iris like that.

Wouldn't that because my camera has an automatic feature (electric eye), so everything is done electrically?

You'll have to switch to "manual" and rotate the knob to see if the iris is moving. Depending on the camera, you might have to turn on the camera while testing this. And of course there's still the chance that your camera has got a Guillotine (or something similar) instead of an iris (in this case you would still see something that moves) or that setting the f-stop only affects the degree of the opening in the of the rotary shutter (in this case you wouldn't be able to see anything as this shutter is normally hidden behind a semi-transparent mirror when looking through the lens).

When nothing else helps: When the camera is turned on, turning the "manual exposure"-knob should affect the amount of light that reaches the film chamber. (As long as the camera is fully functional.)
So remove any film, leave the film chamber open, set the camera to 18fps or lower, point the camera to some light source in a semi-dark room, shoot (without film!) and see how the amount of light in the film chamber changes when playing around with the "manual exposure"-knob.

quote:
I am going to do some shooting this weekedn, and becase I don't know what I have to do to avoid over-exposure during daylight shooting, do you think it is save to set the manual exposure on no. 3? (in thinking "3" is in the middle between open and fully closed Iris)

If you would be in Germany and if the weather forecast is correct, I would say that this might be correct. But as you're in Indonesia I would say that there's a very, very high risk of overexposal.

Jörg

Posted by Knut Nordahl (Member # 518) on August 25, 2008, 02:37 AM:

Winbert, I'm thinking ther is alot of guessing with this camera. you cant get another one?. You should have a camera you know you can use, and a camera you know how to use.

If you cant find cameras in your part of the world, I can probably help you out. Cameras are easy to find in Scandinavia.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2